Hi Rene

Do I need to comment further on this, or did you get all the answers you were 
after?

Jason, thanks for stepping in and dealing with this. Being at a conference at 
the time and so quite busy, was much appreciated.

Graham

On 04/08/2014, at 4:32 AM, Jason Garber <[email protected]> wrote:

> My apologies to the list as I did not realize you were all copied.  Will go 
> off-list now.
> 
> JG
> 
> On Aug 3, 2014 9:29 AM, "Jason Garber" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Rene,
> 
> I will be a bit later today as the family and I are going out now.  I will 
> contact you when I return - likely around 2:00 my time (+/-)
> 
> Thanks!
> Jason
> 
> On Aug 3, 2014 9:27 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thank you Jason. I registered on Skype (rene.heymans).
> You can try around noon your time (6PM mine).
> Till then.
> Regards, René
> 
> On Saturday, August 2, 2014 9:16:29 PM UTC+2, Jason Garber wrote:
> We can do a gotomeeting.  Perhaps around lunchtime eastern on Sunday?
> 
> On Aug 2, 2014 2:08 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello Jason,
> 
> Thank you very much for your kind and swift offer. I'll do it gladly ... but 
> I need to set-up Skype on my station :-( and register a Skype account.
> I'm an old-timer and my only contact is Gmail. I have no G+, no Facebook, no 
> Twitter, ...
> 
> What is your preferred day and time for a Skype call.
> I live in the Paris-Luxembourg-Brussels time zone. For instance it is now 
> Saturday Aug. 2, 20:05.
> 
> When you say privately, I suppose a one-to-one call on Skype and I suppose I 
> can easily find your name there.
> 
> Have a nice Sunday and thanks again,
> 
> René
> 
> On Saturday, August 2, 2014 6:35:33 PM UTC+2, Jason Garber wrote:
> Hi Rene,
> 
> I offer to do a skype call with you to review all of this as I have been 
> there done that and have a crisp understanding of all the working parts.
> 
> Contact me privately if you want to do this.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jason
> 
> On Aug 2, 2014 12:32 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear Graham & al.,
> 
> Congratulations for your software and documentation. I have however some 
> difficulties as outlined in the subject caption.
> 
> I'm building a case study for an application on an intranet within a company 
> where the users would interact with their browser communicating with the 
> Apache2/mod_wsgi server (daemon mode + multi-threads).
> 
> However I'm afraid I'm misunderstanding some important underlying concepts of 
> the architecture. Please allow me to give an example and to give you my 
> thoughts - which could go wrong somewhere.
> 
> Part 1:
> 
> I wrote a simple HTML page with a one field input form.
> 
> In my `environment` dictionary, I have, among other key/value pairs, the 
> following:
> 
>         REQUEST_METHOD: POST
>         REQUEST_URI: /core/my-wsgi-app
>         mod_wsgi.callable_object: application
> 
> The first two values come obviously from my html <form 
> action="core/my-wsgi-app" method="post">...</form>, and the third value is 
> the default value in the configuration directive (WSGICallableObject 
> application).
> 
> In my my-wsgi-app script, I have of course:
> 
>         def application (environment, start_response):
>                [my code here]
>                return [response_body]
> 
> So all is fine and works well but there is something I don't get (I mean I 
> haven't fully assimilated), certainly in a multi-users, multi-threads, ... 
> environment. The main question is about the WSGICallableObject. 
> 
> The documentation 
> (https://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/wiki/ConfigurationDirectives#WSGICallableObject)
>  says "The WSGICallableObject directive can be used to override the name of 
> the Python callable object in the script file which is used as the entry 
> point into the WSGI application." [underlining is mine]. For me the WSGI 
> application is the whole application: when finished the target application 
> I'm case studying could serve one hundred users, delivering thousands of 
> pages built dynamically over hundreds of SQL tables, ... Am I right in 
> thinking than one entry point would be fit for such purpose. The size of the 
> application is such that I already opted for a daemon configuration with 
> multi-threads (I do not wish to have users waiting in a single queue because 
> one of them is building a page that takes seconds to assemble).
> 
> Having one single callable object seems to give me these only 4 options:
> 
> 1) Have only one single REQUEST_URI, say /core/my-wsgi-app,  where only one 
> callable object (function, class, ...) is used under the one and same name 
> (application). In such case that callable object is the one and only full 
> single entry point to the overall application (thousands of pages built 
> dynamically) and I must care for checking, authorisation, parsing, 
> dispatching, ... and finally assembling the response and returning it. I'm 
> wondering if this single script/callable-object could become a bottleneck. It 
> is the concern I've just expressed. Of course, Python can handle hundreds of 
> function calls and instance calls. This option makes me doubt I fully 
> understand the mechanism. I call this option N to 1.
> 
> 2) Have various REQUEST_URI (even one per page if need be) and in each called 
> script, there would be one callable object with the same name ("application" 
> as defined in the WSGICallableObject directive). In that case, I could create 
> a callable instance of a base class but that instance should bear the 
> application name and use the two positional arguments passed by mod_wsgi. 
> This option, if used exclusively, seems to me like a normal "CGI static 
> serving", i.e. one request activates one script (the whole logic and dynamism 
> is in the script). This point too makes me doubt I understand the real nature 
> of WSGI. I call this option N to N.
> 
> 3) One could combine option 1 and 2 to create more dynamism without risking 
> the potential (?) bottleneck of option 1 when used alone. I call this option 
> N to M (<<N)
> 
> 4) There seems to be a possibility to define the WSGICallableObject per 
> directory. My understanding is that the REQUEST_URI belonging to a directory 
> (and its sub-directories) would use that callable object name. This means for 
> instance that any URI of the form /core/section-1/abc would have a callable 
> object Application_1, while any URI under /core/section-N/... would have a 
> callable object Application_N. I haven't tried this directive yet so I may 
> misunderstand its role.
> 
> This is my overall understanding but I'm afraid I'm missing something 
> fundamental [please note that I'm not an English speaker and I might have 
> missed subtleties in the documentation which is quite dense]. I tried to 
> picture this in a diagram but I'm not sure I got it right:
> 
>  M (html requests) -> 1 (http server) -> N x P (mod_wsgi daemons x threads) 
> -> X? (Python instance(s) / one per daemon ? I don't know) -> M (calls to one 
> object in one URI or to many objects - named the same - in many URI ? ) and 
> back to the user via the same route.
> 
> I assume that one user html request generates ultimately one call to a 
> callable object (give or take) : that's why I use M in toth cases. Is this 
> assumption correct ? My dilemma is that I can't understand the spread of the 
> load between the 2 extremes: one URI containing the `application` callable 
> object (that is eventually called hundreds of times per second) or many 
> hundreds URI each containing a callable object named `application` that all 
> get called much less frequently.
> 
> Part 2:
> 
> As a consequence of this hazy understanding of mine, I wonder why can't the 
> name of the callable object be chosen on demand ?
> 
> If I refer to PEP3333 (http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3333/) I 
> understand that:
>  "A server or gateway must invoke the application object using positional 
> (not keyword) arguments. 
> (E.g. by calling result = application(environ, start_response)"
> 
> So my guess is that, still referring to the example at the top, one thread in 
> mod_wsgi loads (I wouldn't call this an import) the /core/my-wsgi-app script 
> and calls application(environment, start_response) that has been defined in 
> it. Is this the correct mechanism ?
> 
> Could we imagine that mod_wsgi would sometime call my_App (arg1, arg2), some 
> other time call your_App (req, resp) or call Small_app (in, out) where 
> my_App, your_App, Small_app would be defined because mod_wsgi would be able 
> to set dynamically the WSGICallableObject . Imagine that in the 
> WSGIImportScript script file, we would have:
> 
>         def my_App (param1, param2):
>              [code here]
>              return [my_Response]
> 
>         def your_App (param1, param2):
>              [code here]
>              return [your_Response]
> 
>         def Small_app (param1, param2):
>              [code here]
>              return [Small_response]
> 
> all the functions would be ready to be called.
> 
> I suppose that in any case we are limited:
> 
> A)   by the HTTP protocol (URI given via the action attribute, the POST, GET, 
> OPTIONS, ... from the method attribute and the key/value pairs from the 
> various input fields); and
> 
> B)   by directives we could give to configure mod_wsgi. I guess it is not the 
> role neither the intend to build some "user logic" within mod_wsgi.
> 
> Conclusions:
> 
> 1) Am I correct in my understanding of mod_wsgi as expressed here above (Part 
> 1) ? Beware that I could be out of my depth, i.e. talking about something I 
> don't properly understand. In that case please correct me or complement my 
> view.
> 
> 2) Do we need to dynamically choose the callable object name for the sake of 
> dynamism and multiplicity ?
> 
> ->  If not, the current set-up is enough. In which case is the preceding 
> point ( 1) ) complete and correct ?
> 
> ->  If yes, how to do it simply and elegantly ?
> 
>         => Idea 1: create an extra key/value pair (e.g. 
> wsgi_callable_object=my_application). It seems cumbersome to me.
> 
>         => Idea 2: if the URI were to have the form 
> /core/my-wsgi-app/_my_application then mod_wsgi could provide:
>                         REQUEST_URI: /core/my-wsgi-app
>                         mod_wsgi.callable_object: my_application
>              in the 'environment` dictionary because it would strip the 
> trailing part beginning with an underscore provided it is told to do so by a 
> directive;
>              otherwise it would behave as now and deliver:
>                         REQUEST_URI: /core/my-wsgi-app/_my_application
>                         mod_wsgi.callable_object: application
> 
> Thanks:
> 
> I do realize this is an unusual post (maybe it should find its way in the 
> group working on the documentation) but I would be very happy if some of you 
> could answer / feedback to me. In any case I do thank you all in advance.
> 
> René
> 
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