One other possibility is ballooning of the hydraulic line between the cylinders. Consistent with lower biting-point but without the "creep" of the master cylinder's seals leaking.
(I had all three components -- both cylinders, and the hose -- fail one after the other, years ago on my '82 Range Rover) Tim ________________________________ From: Rob Hill [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 17 July 2012 23:20 To: mogtalk2 Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [mogtalk2] Clutch Issues Hi David, I understand what you are saying but the symptom of a failing master cylinder is that the biting point moves further to the floor with every action then gradually recovers if you leave the clutch pedal "up". If you put the clutch pedal down and engage first gear but don't move off but just hold the pedal down the clutch will eventually start to engage and the car will move away or stall. A worn out clutch plate does the reverse, i.e. the biting point gets further from the floor. What we are trying to establish is whether your problem is with the clutch actuation or the plate itself and these tend to give opposite symptoms. A failing master cylinder (or slave cylinder for that matter but, in that case you would have a fluid leak) will give a clutch which doesn't fully release. This means a biting point close to the floor and, probably, stiff gear engagement. A worn out clutch will not fully engage. The biting point will be high and the clutch will slip - hence the "stall test". Another possibility if the biting point is consistent but has moved "longer" is that you have excessive free play somewhere in the release mechanism. You need to get under the car and watch the release arm as somebody presses the pedal. Is there any adjustment on the slave cylinder pushrod? Or in the peadal mechanism somewhere? All the best, Rob Hill ----- Original Message ----- From: David Jones<mailto:[email protected]> To: mogtalk2<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [mogtalk2] Clutch Issues Rob Apart from the pedal travel the clutch is behaving normally........and before anyone asks....no I haven't pushed the set forward nor as far as I am aware has my left leg got longer. (he says standing at an angle of 45 degrees!! T C David ________________________________ From: Rob Hill <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: mogtalk2 <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Tuesday, 17 July 2012, 18:20 Subject: Re: [mogtalk2] Clutch Issues Hi David, If you depress the clutch and engage first gear and leave the clutch depressed does the clutch gradually start to engage? If so then the master cylinder seal is leaking. The fluid level is fine because no fluid is leaving the system. It is simply escaping back to the reservoir. All the best, Rob Hill ----- Original Message ----- From: David Jones<mailto:[email protected]> To: mogtalk2<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [mogtalk2] Clutch Issues David That was my first thought, but can't think what else it might be. David ________________________________ From: "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: mogtalk2 <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Tuesday, 17 July 2012, 15:49 Subject: RE: [mogtalk2] Clutch Issues Sounds a low mileage for the clutch to be worn out TC David. ________________________________ From: David Jones [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 17 July 2012 14:59 To: mogtalk2 Subject: [mogtalk2] Clutch Issues Hi Chaps, I need some advice from those much more technically gifted than I. I have a 1998 4-4 with 30,000 miles on the clock. I took the Mog out today and noticed the clutch pedal travel seemed to be getting longer and longer, or to be more precise the take up of the clutch is very close to the floor. I guess it must be new clutch time, however in the past with other vehicles a slipping clutch was the sign of a worn out clutch and not pedal travel. That said, I had to replace the clutch on the Defender some time ago and if I recall that was also pedal travel rather than slipping. So a few questions, do the symptoms suggest a new clutch and is it an engine out job or can it be tackled from underneath? I have checked the fluid levels are they are fine. 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