On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 23:47, Alex Combas wrote: > Hello, > As no doubt some of us have already read: > > Havoc just released an article[1] describing the > important decision that Opensource is facing of what > Managed World(tm) we will all adopt. > > In doing so he gave Mono a real black eye and I think > we need to stand up and defend ourselves or risk > loosing a lot. > > It is sad for me to see that the discussion got off to > such a bad start, but Im sure that Havoc was only > trying to be realistic. > > But still, it is sad to see that he says he is > attempting to open the lines of discussion and then > promptly bashes everything except gcj and classpath. > > We need to start advocating our platform, we need to > start voicing ourselves. A lot is at stake here. We > _must_ act. >
Let's face it. Only voicing ourselves is not going to help. Havoc has brought out some very solid points and a stark reality too. Mono (as of now) is not clear of legal doubts and Sun won't open source Java. If you follow some latest news on Sun/Java, you'll find some interesting things. Sun and M$ are competing for market-hold through Java/.NET because that's their way to big money. What remains as options now are: (1) GCJ or (2) Mono/IKVM. It's really a tough decision to take at this juncture. Significant portions of both Java and .NET are still proprietary, which have no open-source alternatives. This is what gives Sun and M$ the impetus to wield managed-platforms monopoly. The ideal solution might be open-source community having its own managed-platform which is adaptive of Java and .NET. Or maybe some kind of standard through which multiple managed-platforms can co-exist and inter-operate. But that's far from realistic and in all likelihood, that is not going to happen (at least anytime soon). > Personally, I think Havoc was taking a very > black/white approach to things. > > But why does the GNOME core really need to be mutually > exclusive when viewing gcj or Mono? Isnt there room > for both? doesn't opensource thrive due to it's > genetic diversity. > > I understand the argument he makes, and I realize that > integrating both gcj and Mono would be more than twice > as much work as implementing either one alone. However > by finding a way to integrate both Worlds(tm) we would > not only be safer (by not putting all our eggs in one > basket) but also more advanced. > > Ok, so now it sounds like I have no idea what Im > talking about (and probably dont :P) because > implementing both systems is impossible, right? > Yes, as things stand currently I admint it would be > hard to impossible. > > < uninformed_and_idealistic_rant > > > We would need to get _everyone_ onboard and > re-engineer the entire desktop into a truely component > based system (this should be done regardless of which > Managed World(tm) ends up being integrated). If the > entire platform were truely and completely component > based then I think there would be room for both > Managed Worlds(tm) and developers could choose to > target which ever they feel more comfortable with. > Win, win. > > </ uninformed_and_idealistic_rant > > > Further more, Havoc sites the problem of a possible > fork if Mono is chosen and sites the legal limbo > quagmire that we are currently wallowing in as the > reason for it. > > How is that legal review coming? > Do we have a time line? > > And finally, I think that if a fork were to take place > (by Novel choosing to go it alone and integrate Mono > into the core of its Ximian Desktop) that we would > survive the storm and eventually we would prevail. I > think Mono has the critical mass needed in order to > weather a fork-storm, although I really hope we dont > need to fork. > > Please, please, please, please do not sit idly by and > watch as a Mono based desktop is yanked out of our > reach. We need action. Lots of it. > As a GNOME fan, I'd love to see GNOME scaling heights. I am sure neither the Java folks nor the Mono community is going to be silent over it. Time will tell better, perhaps. :-) Regards, Shantanu -- In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates? _______________________________________________ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
