Dear Abe,
I have to disagree with your facts. I ship Fedex
everyday and ship about 200 boxes a week. Not only does the driver scan the
first box of the shipment, but I print a daily manifest that he signs and dates
with a time. My daily manifest has a tracking number and all the customer
information on it. I don't know Helmut, other than from the group, but he has
shipped me items to frame for customers and they have arrived without a hitch
using Fedex.
In addition, please let me know your ebay name so I make
sure to never buy anything from you if this is the way you talk about good
customers after the fact.
Sue Heim
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:19
PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] PayPal (and Fedex) =
recipe for disaster
Let me try to air out the facts in their
entirety.
Unlike UPS, when shipping Fedex there is never any
documentation that they
physically picked-up the package. On the UPS
Worldship software you have to
do an End of Day close out, and it prints
out a Pickup Summary, which say
the date and how many packages you have.
The UPS driver has to sign that
Pickup Summary before he leaves with your
packages. Fedex has no such
system; they just show up, pickup the packages,
and go on their way. I have
never seen a Fedex driver scan a package as he
picks it up. It is my
understanding that they are not scanned until they
reach the depot. Maybe
they do it differently in Europe; but that is how it
is here.
And, also at the request of Helmut, I had declared the value
at less than
$100 if I remember correctly. Presumably, this was to save him
money on
duties. So the only documentation I had was a waybill that I
filled out (and
was not validated by any employee of Fedex); and a customs
invoice with a
declared val of maybe $35 or $50. There was absolutely no
insurance for me.
So as a result of the ineptitude of the buyer's
courier of special request,
the conspiracy to be dishonest with customs
(which benefits only the buyer),
and Paypal's buyer protection program, I
would have been stuck holding the
bag in the event Fedex lost the package
indefinately. Under those
circumstance's if I was wearing Helmut's shoe, I
would have given the seller
the benefit of the doubt. By that point in
time, I had accumulated hundreds
of poster related unique positive
feedbacks on eBay (many of them on high
value items). I have never swindled
anyone out of money within or without
this hobby, and I had the feedback to
prove it. I didn't think there was any
reason for me to be considered
potentially untrustworthy. I think he was
worried because it took me 6 days
to email him the tracking #. There was a
viable reason for that which was
explained, and I did finally get him the
tracking #. Whether or not that
delay warranted a refund is debatable I
guess.
The fact that I went
out of my way to accomodate Helmut, the fact that his
carrier fucked up big
time, and the fact that I was on the brink of paying
for it really really
really pissed me off. I explained all this to him; he
asked for a refund;
and I declined on those grounds. Then he filed the claim
with Paypal... my
money was gone... I found that to be unfair; my hands were
tied there was
nothing I could do.
To Helmut: I know we've had no correspondence since
this incident. I hope
there is no bad blood. It is obvious that we are both
honest business
people. You paid for the poster; I delivered the poster. We
had a bumpy ride
- but it worked out OK in the end (and thank god for
that... b/c I'd
probably hate your guts if they never found the package!).
Who knows, maybe
we can even do business again someday.
Moral of the
story: a) Don't trust anything with Fedex... this is one of my
numerous
Fedex horror stories. b) you better be feeling lucky if you're
going to
accept paypal. i for the most part have been lucky. As JR pointed
out there
are ways try to protect yourself... but that's a hell of a lot
of
work.
ok i think thats it.
love,
abe
p.s. did i
mention i hate fedex?
>From: Susan Heim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To:
Susan Heim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject:
Re: [MOPO] PayPal
>Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:51:39
-0800
>
>Re: [MOPO] PayPalHey all,
> I can
certainly see both sides of the coin here, but I have to say, I
>would
have done exactly what Helmut did. The problem is that the
Fedex
>tracking number was nowhere in the system to follow. If I had
never done
>business with Abe as a seller before, I would have been
worried that I was
>being taken. I have customers that have their own
accounts with Fedex and
>UPS and, while I use Fedex, if they ask me to
send it on their UPS account,
>I obliged them. If the package disappears
and there is no record on the
>system of me having shipped the item, I
would be extremely frustrated, but
>could certainly understand the
customers skepticism. I would assume that
>Abe would have some
kind of paperwork to show the shipment, so he could
>prove to Fedex that
it was indeed shipped and certainly the item would have
>had a declared
value of $800 which if you could provide paperwork to verify
>the
shipment, even if the tracking number wasn't showing up in the
computer
>system, Fedex would have had to pay for that shipment. I would
certainly
>ask Abe, if the shoe was on the other foot, wouldn't you do
exactly what
>Helmut did?
>
>
In this case, everything worked out. Unfortunately it doesn't
always
>and sometimes it is just the cost of doing business. That's why
there is
>insurance of all kinds available.
>
>Sue
Heim
>www.hollywoodposterframes.com<http://www.hollywoodposterframes.com/>
>(800)
463-2994
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From: Helmut Hamm<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:34 AM
> Subject: Re:
[MOPO] PayPal
>
>
> I was Abe's buyer in the
story below and while things basically happened
>the way he describes
them there is one important detail
missing:
>
>
> When I tried to track the package
online, the tracking number he had
>given was "unknown" to the Fedex
system.
>
>
> In the days to follow I spoke to
several Fedex employees, and the bottom
>line was there was no record
THAT THEY HAD EVEN PICKED IT UP.
> Fedex normally scans
anything immediately upon pickup, so this was
most
>unusual.
>
>
> So there I was: With
$800 at stake (and no chance to ever see any of it
>back once Paypal's
"30 days to file a complaint" were over), a seller I had
>never dealt
with before and didn't know anything about, who couldn't show a
>valid
tracking number, yet denied any
responsibility.
>
>
> What was I supposed to do?
What would you have done?
>
>
> Fortunately,
after three weeks the poster showed up out of nowhere and
>of course I
dropped the Paypal claim immediately and he got his
money.
>
>
> Again, if you were me, what would
you have done in this situation?
>
>
>
Helmut
>
>
>
>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From:
Abe Allen<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
To:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004
12:17
> Subject: Re: [MOPO]
Paypal
>
>
> Indeed. It
was over a year ago when I sold a poster for around
$800
>to
> someone in Germany.
The buyer asked that I ship the item via
Fedex
>(I
> usually just ship
via Airmail). So I obliged by shipping it Fedex,
>which
of
> course had a tracking number.
Only problem was, Fedex lost the
>package
for
> three weeks! I had the
tracking number.... but that doesn't
matter
>to
> Paypal; you have
to have a tracking # that proves the package
was
>delivered.
> So if the
courier fucks up, the seller bites the bullet.
Amazingly,
>the
> buyer then
insisted that I refund his money (remember it was his
>courier
of
> choice that caused the
problem). I told him: not my problem;
your
>courier
> lost it;
sorry. He filed the complaint with paypal, and they took
>the
$800
> out of my account promptly.
There was nothing I could do even though
>I
could
> prove that I shipped it. You
can't talk to anybody at paypal;
you
>can't
> plead your case;
you can't write them a letter; it's either a
>tracking
#
> that shows delivered or bye bye
cash! Fedex found the package 3
>weeks
after
> I shipped it, finally
delivered it; and the buyer at least had
the
>decency
> to drop the
claim; so I ended up getting my money. I have never
been
>more
> pissed off in
regards to an eBay
transaction.
>
>
-abe
>
>
> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site
at www.filmfan.com
>
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