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Vaughn, Randy and Gary,
I've got to combine responses into one message here as I'm almost at
my daily MOPO limit:
Vaughn, yes, that is what I meant by "details" and "supporting evidence".
While not necessary for "general conversation", when making an actual accusation
it is necessary to have something to back up it up in order for
people to give it credence. In this particular case, it would have been best if
you had kept or could get hold of Bruce's original comment where he claimed that
posters "were never returned to the NSS" -- otherwise, how do we know he really
said that? Now, I realize that's hard to do on an old comment, one can't keep a
copy of everything, but it does help lend credibility if one can point to a
particular message and say "See? Right here, Bruce said this..." In this
case, I actually do remember Bruce making this statement on MOPO myself
quite some time ago -- and I thought it really weird at the time, because
everyone who has educated themselves in vintage movie posters knows that posters
were supposed to be returned to NSS in the old days and most often were. Sure,
there were cases where it didn't get done for one reason or another (and NSS
doesn't seem to have had a very serious "fine" for not returning material), but
it is clear that the material was meant to be returned (it is plainly marked
that way) and that most of it was, at least through the mid-70's.
Bruce is clearly well-versed in poster history and has the single largest
collection of NSS numbers in the known universe in his possession, so why
he would make such a dumb statement struck me as very odd at the time. I suspect
he was having a "senior moment" as strikes so many of us these days, or perhaps
he misspoke and really meant to say something more qualified, like the fact
that towards the end of the NSS era that material was not being
regularly returned anymore. But clearly, his statement as written was wrong
on a very elementary level, as anyone with an old poster with an NSS
statement printed at the bottom can easily see.
As for holding Bruce to standards... well, I personally do think Bruce has
"set himself up" for being held to a higher standard as a result of his own
incessant, non-stop and over-the-top self-promotion. He is constantly telling us
that he is the greatest poster seller of all time That he has the best
descriptions (not true, obviously, to anyone who has read them recently. They
used to be, but in the past year they have become woefully inadequate. For all
but the very high-end items, they now usually consist of a long,
non-committal paragraph which basically advises bidders to "check
out the high-resolution picture and make your decision based on that").
That he has the best photos (they are now excellent, that's true). That he
has the greatest packaging and shipping in the world (he does get an awful
lot of posters out the door very quickly after one of his auctions ends. And the
packaging is fine, but no better than many other reputable sellers... there's
only so much you can do with packaging and shipping, after all, unless you are
personally driving the delivery van). Bruce also likes to continually point out
that he sells more than anyone else (true, as far as I can tell). Unfortunately,
at the same time, Bruce doesn't hesitate to insinuate that not only is his
operation the greatest, but that everyone else's operation kind of sucks in
comparison (clearly not true and the thing I find most distasteful and
completely unnecessary in some of Bruce's promotional statements). So, with
all this non-stop Mohammed Ali-style "I am the greatest" self-promotion, I
feel he actually *is* inviting people to hold him to a "higher standard." He has
set himself up as the self-proclaimed "higher standard", after all.
On the other hand, I do think Gary really needs to chill on his Bruce
ranting. OK, we get it, you don't like Bruce anymore. So don't buy from
him. But, sheesh, Bruce isn't even on MOPO these days, so what's the point of
going on and on...? Particularly with old news? If you've got something new,
with some supporting details, that might be different. But otherwise, let's move
on.
Finally, I think Randy has clearly analyzed the most likely cause Jon
Warren's recent attitude and activities. Jon does want to build up ICMP
into a commercial enterprise and the "old MPT" was clearly a liability towards
achieving that goal. But hey, it is Jon's website, so he's entitled to do with
it what he will. That's why MOPO as a stand-alone unmoderated forum with no
other entangling alignments or hidden agendas is so valuable to the movie poster
community.
I would suggest that someone from the "old MPT" might want to go to www.yahoogroups.com and start their own
independent email forum where the disenfranchised from MPT could continue
discussions in the manner to which they have become accustomed. It's actually
very easy to do. And free.
I can relate to Jon's situation on a very personal level. I have to
straddle the buyer-seller divide far too often myself because I run the
MoviePosterBid.com auction site. I'm all for honest and open discussion and if a
buyer OR a seller is deserving of criticism I believe it is good for the
community to be able to do so. I have to be an advocate for both buyers and
sellers. So the only thing I can do is insist on fairness and take a look at
both sides of any question and ask that accusations must be backed up
with some kind of details or supporting evidence.
On a couple of rare occasions I have had to suspend someone's selling
privileges on MPB. And I have also had to suspend the memberships of a
couple of bidders as well. Fair is fair, and standards should be applied to
buyers and sellers equally.
What's funny about this situation... kind of... is that the buyer and
seller are often THE SAME PERSON. One day, he's a buyer and all heated up about
some seller's inaccurate description or extortionist shipping fees and lamenting
the rise in dealers' asking prices -- and the next day he's a dealer and
bitching about non-paying bidders and buyers who cry about every little nick in
the "very good condition" poster he sent them and complaining that no one wants
to pay a decent price for his wares anymore.
At times, we can be one very schizophrenic community...
-- JR
----- Original Message -----
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- Re: [MOPO] Censorship!!! standards & returned... JRS
- Re: [MOPO] Censorship!!! standards & ret... David Kusumoto
- [MOPO] F/S - more material added to our Rece... Phil Edwards Cinema Arts
