Man oh man that was a great post. Read it from beginning to end. I don't have to agree with everything written to be entertained and lost in time with stuff that really connects. For me, it's these free-wheeling, "relatively" uncensored posts which make MoPo still the best, why it's worth hanging around...
-koose.
----Original Message Follows----
From: JRS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: JRS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Censorship!!! standards & returned NSS material Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 01:23:43 -0500
Vaughn, Randy and Gary,
I've got to combine responses into one message here as I'm almost at my daily MOPO limit:
Vaughn, yes, that is what I meant by "details" and "supporting evidence". While not necessary for "general conversation", when making an actual accusation it is necessary to have something to back up it up in order for people to give it credence. In this particular case, it would have been best if you had kept or could get hold of Bruce's original comment where he claimed that posters "were never returned to the NSS" -- otherwise, how do we know he really said that? Now, I realize that's hard to do on an old comment, one can't keep a copy of everything, but it does help lend credibility if one can point to a particular message and say "See? Right here, Bruce said this..." In this case, I actually do remember Bruce making this statement on MOPO myself quite some time ago -- and I thought it really weird at the time, because everyone who has educated themselves in vintage movie posters knows that posters were supposed to be returned to NSS in the old days and most often were. Sure, there were cases where it didn't get done for one reason or another (and NSS doesn't seem to have had a very serious "fine" for not returning material), but it is clear that the material was meant to be returned (it is plainly marked that way) and that most of it was, at least through the mid-70's.
Bruce is clearly well-versed in poster history and has the single largest collection of NSS numbers in the known universe in his possession, so why he would make such a dumb statement struck me as very odd at the time. I suspect he was having a "senior moment" as strikes so many of us these days, or perhaps he misspoke and really meant to say something more qualified, like the fact that towards the end of the NSS era that material was not being regularly returned anymore. But clearly, his statement as written was wrong on a very elementary level, as anyone with an old poster with an NSS statement printed at the bottom can easily see.
As for holding Bruce to standards... well, I personally do think Bruce has "set himself up" for being held to a higher standard as a result of his own incessant, non-stop and over-the-top self-promotion. He is constantly telling us that he is the greatest poster seller of all time That he has the best descriptions (not true, obviously, to anyone who has read them recently. They used to be, but in the past year they have become woefully inadequate. For all but the very high-end items, they now usually consist of a long, non-committal paragraph which basically advises bidders to "check out the high-resolution picture and make your decision based on that"). That he has the best photos (they are now excellent, that's true). That he has the greatest packaging and shipping in the world (he does get an awful lot of posters out the door very quickly after one of his auctions ends. And the packaging is fine, but no better than many other reputable sellers... there's only so much you can do with packaging and shipping, after all, unless you are personally driving the delivery van). Bruce also likes to continually point out that he sells more than anyone else (true, as far as I can tell). Unfortunately, at the same time, Bruce doesn't hesitate to insinuate that not only is his operation the greatest, but that everyone else's operation kind of sucks in comparison (clearly not true and the thing I find most distasteful and completely unnecessary in some of Bruce's promotional statements). So, with all this non-stop Mohammed Ali-style "I am the greatest" self-promotion, I feel he actually *is* inviting people to hold him to a "higher standard." He has set himself up as the self-proclaimed "higher standard", after all.
On the other hand, I do think Gary really needs to chill on his Bruce ranting. OK, we get it, you don't like Bruce anymore. So don't buy from him. But, sheesh, Bruce isn't even on MOPO these days, so what's the point of going on and on...? Particularly with old news? If you've got something new, with some supporting details, that might be different. But otherwise, let's move on.
Finally, I think Randy has clearly analyzed the most likely cause Jon Warren's recent attitude and activities. Jon does want to build up ICMP into a commercial enterprise and the "old MPT" was clearly a liability towards achieving that goal. But hey, it is Jon's website, so he's entitled to do with it what he will. That's why MOPO as a stand-alone unmoderated forum with no other entangling alignments or hidden agendas is so valuable to the movie poster community.
I would suggest that someone from the "old MPT" might want to go to www.yahoogroups.com and start their own independent email forum where the disenfranchised from MPT could continue discussions in the manner to which they have become accustomed. It's actually very easy to do. And free.
I can relate to Jon's situation on a very personal level. I have to straddle the buyer-seller divide far too often myself because I run the MoviePosterBid.com auction site. I'm all for honest and open discussion and if a buyer OR a seller is deserving of criticism I believe it is good for the community to be able to do so. I have to be an advocate for both buyers and sellers. So the only thing I can do is insist on fairness and take a look at both sides of any question and ask that accusations must be backed up with some kind of details or supporting evidence.
On a couple of rare occasions I have had to suspend someone's selling privileges on MPB. And I have also had to suspend the memberships of a couple of bidders as well. Fair is fair, and standards should be applied to buyers and sellers equally.
What's funny about this situation... kind of... is that the buyer and seller are often THE SAME PERSON. One day, he's a buyer and all heated up about some seller's inaccurate description or extortionist shipping fees and lamenting the rise in dealers' asking prices -- and the next day he's a dealer and bitching about non-paying bidders and buyers who cry about every little nick in the "very good condition" poster he sent them and complaining that no one wants to pay a decent price for his wares anymore.
At times, we can be one very schizophrenic community...
-- JR
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