I'm afraid I'm going to have to drop into the "bad idea" camp on the subject of extending bids - to me it's an open invitation to shill bidding and shill bidders.
Knowing that it's possible to keep testing the limits of snipe bids (and truly some of us po' folk can't spend all of our time in front of the computer either) encourages shills to run up their items. Yes, yes, never bid more than you're willing to pay but I'm only willing to pay that when I know the auction can't be "rigged" so easily. It would seem that with all the hoohaw lately about shill bidding this is a concept thats time has long since passed.
I disagree with the idea that e**y is any different than "real" auctions, to me they are identically the same. Bidders pay what they are willing to pay in either situation, whether it's done in one go (for the sniper) or over the course of a few seconds (for the sit-down bidder). Auctions have always been about buying items at the price the folks in the audience, whether at their computer or in the house, are willing to pay. One has only to have experienced the frustration of bidding against "the house" and not another warm body in sight to want to minimize the feeling in the digital realm.
It seems to me that if you've got top quality items to sell you will sell them at the price that that instant in time set. Inviting shills into the equation seems like a huge step backwards.
Just my opinion though...
--Peter
Movie Poster Bid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Movie Poster Bid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Claude,I think we can assume that each of us values our limited supply of time. First of all, a couple of clarifications:It's not "my idea" -- it's an concept that has been in place and operating on several auction sites for a while now and most people seem to like it. When I first heard about it, my own initial reaction was negative. After thinking about it for a while I've come around to the conclusion that it can enhance the bidding environment for most people (although as you explain it, perhaps not for you personally).Bruce suggested applying the idea on MPB to me about the same time we started thinking about it ourselves and indicated he was in favor of the idea, even with his large number of auctions -- I have to assume he has thought about the issues you bring up and has reached his own conclusions about them. You'll have to ask him how he sees it working for him or perhaps he will decide this is an issue he will comment on as he monitors this list.I don't see how you can disagree about agreeing to differ -- we obviously have different concepts of what an internet auction should be. I'm not going to tell you that your vision is wrong, but it doesn't seem to be in tune with what most other people are telling me about this concept (which is that they like it). Call them Mr. and Mrs. Smallpockets if you will, but they make up the bulk of the auction bidding public even if they don't necessarily end up winning the highest ticket items.But you're assuming it will be Mr. Smallpockets bidding up Mr. Deeppockets (who doesn't have time for such foolishness). Not necessarily. What happens if there are two or three of the Deep Pocket class interested in the item? Under the last second snipes with fixed end times approach, it still comes down to who guessed highest, or who simply threw the most money into his sniper bid bucket, even if it is three whales vying for the item.But the seller does not get anything like the best price he might have under those circumstances. If the auction end time had been extended slightly, Mr. DP#1 could have seen that his snipe didn't cut it and bid again. So could Mr. DP#2. Now Mr. DP# 3 (who had guessed highest on his original snipe bid) has to continue to defend against serious bids from his Deep Pocket peers. Even though he might consider it a "waste of time", I doubt that his peers competing against him for the item are of the same opinion. I also doubt that the seller of the item considers such activity a waste of time. He's got himself a nice little bidding war going on between two or more deep-pocketed collectors who want his poster and he may be on the way to setting a new price record.Last second snipe-bidding with fixed end times short-circuits this process and ends the auction without allowing a true bidding war to develop. A lot of people are convinced that snipe-bidding with a fixed end time consistently short-changes the seller of a desirable item -- particularly now that the technique has become so prevalent that most auctions don't get any serious bids during their 7 day run, instead all of the "real bids" pop in at the last second in the form of snipes. The bidding-up of an item that used to take gradually and go on over the 7 day period and culminate at the end time now takes place off-screen in micro-seconds with no one being able to respond properly to the "last bid" with a higher one -- which is what auctions are supposed to be about (to me, anyway).Perhaps this is what Bruce is considering?I dunno, but given the overwhelming public reaction in favor of the idea, we definitely plan to give it a try (always assuming we can make the whole deal work reliably, to include interfacing it with our built-in sniper program so that a snipe bid can stay in play as the end time is extended. It's tricky.).-- JR----- Original Message -----From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 15:28Subject: Re: [MOPO] How to Beat The ClockJRAlthough I don't have the time to spar with you on this subject I find it fun and therefore am taking a little more of my working time to reply. I mention time because it is quite important to me. I enjoy working, playing racquetball, spending time with my wife, children, grandchildren and friends. I enjoy the closing 10 seconds (though rarely) when I am at the computer and able to see the last few snipe bids come in and the auction terminates. If you think that I would ever spend time at a computer while Mr. Smallbid keeps an auction going in perpetuity in the smallest possible increments to see if he can beat out Mr. Deep Pockets, you have another guess coming. I truly believe most people could care less about the ability to see a constant stream of minimum bids arrive keeping an auction going until they become bored to tears. The only ones who would not be bored by having $35 posters going up in ! $1 increments from an opening of $2.99 are those who are having mental orgasmic spasms. Don't you realize that if a poster is at $10 and the winning bid is $35, this auction could be extended 25 minutes? The excitement that is being generated under these circumstances does not appear to be on a par with anything unless you are masochistic and enjoy pain. If you are bidding on a few items don't you realize how much time you would be at the computer playing mental games with Mr. Smallbid who just loves to go up $1 at a time. The average item does not run into the thousands of dollars. Your idea is a huge waste of time.This bit about ebay auctions being a guessing game as opposed to your keeping them alive and kicking is also wrong. Mr. Small Pockets can only bid as much as he can afford, not how high he can guess. Mr. Big Pockets can afford to bid, or guess using your terminology, much higher. Whether you extend the auction a few minutes or a few hours the person with the deepest pockets will win. Let's also address psychology. Mr. Small Pockets wants this system because Mr. Small thinks that if he only had one bid more he could have outbid the sniper who in the last 5 seconds took the poster away. Nothing is further from the truth. When Mr. Big wants something Mr. Small will never win. An extra thousand bids will not let Mr. Small win when Mr. Big wants the poster.Now, let's talk about Mr. Hershenson---He places around 1000 items a week on ebay. They end every 2 minutes or less on a regular basis every Tuesday night. There are many people, including me, who bid on approximately 20 items. How is it possible and watch the auctions to bid on these items when there is no end in sight for any of them? You have forgotten one very important aspect of a live auction. Regardless of how many items are being auctioned in a live auction, they go in order, and until the hammer drops, the next lot does not come up for bid. This is not the case in an internet auction. Mr. Hershenson's posters will not be held up waiting for the hammer to fall on the previous lot. Extending these auctions would create a huge amount of confusion and rather than bidding on more items, people will not bid on many items that they wanted ! to in the first place.I have not forgotten that for many years there were no sniper bids. I have also not forgotten the small black and white TV screens and no color TV, 7 TV stations in NY compared to 300 right now, no cellphones, no fax machines and huge computer rooms with huge computers with less power than today's laptops. I have adjusted to the complexities of life and the improvements technology has made to enable us to do things faster and better. I do not want to take steps back in time. Extending auctions will not do what you think it will do. It will only add to frustration and boredom and stifle progress. I have exhausted this subject and if you still feel it is worthwhile, then sobeit.You said in your opening that we agree to disagree. I don't agree with that either.Claude LittonVisit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
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