Yes, defining your definition of "Fair" is at the root of the issue
and what seems fair to one, may not seem fair to teh other
the deadline clock as used by eBay is immanently fair between
bidders, but it is not neccessarily fair to sellers & consignors who
clearly want to get as much as they can. Sean said (on NSFGE where
there is a lively string on this subject) that relatively few items
would be extended anyway because most items will not need extended
deadlines. You're really only talking about very popular items. A
small minority of the auctions in total
If Heritage auctions ended on a time clock, many of those Signature
Auction sales would be at far lower amounts.
But all of your bidders are missing a very salient point: it is
Bruce's responsibility to get the maximum value for his consignors.
The eBay format really doesn't work toward that end in many cases of
really valuable items, so Bruce has a solution for his consignors.
Also, I think that while everyone's concerns are valid, I do think
that you should take a "wait & see" approach so you can see how it
works and then determine whether it is or is not in your favor. I
think everyone will be quite surprised
look, eBay has made collecting incredibly easy for buyers - at the
seller's expense in many cases. Don't you folks think that sellers
deserve the same kinds of protection that you think bidders deserve??
Bruce's new way of doing business only levels the playing field, it
doesn't tilt it because it is right now tilted to the other party's
favor. It balances the field
I fully understand the difficulties some people may have when they
are attending their kid's soccer games, but what did you do before
eBay (if you were in the hobby at the time). Ultimately, you made
sure or you didn't - that you could bid, or you just let it pass. I
doubt that either situation was a catastrophe. c'est la vie
Rich==============
At 01:28 PM 2/25/2008, Patrick Michael Tupy wrote:
Jeez, as for 'fair' or 'unfair' an argument could be made for
both. First, define Fair. Bruce will have unfixed endings because
he feels it is fair, given his needs and it will benefit his bottom
line. Who can blame him? This is a business and that is certainly
fair. In fact, it's likely that Bruce will work out any 'kinks' so
that those participating will feel that it is a fair auction in the long run.
Still, the task is not simple. For in an 'in person' "Live" non
fixed ending auction you don't bid your maximimum amount up front,
you are there to 'feel' the room, etc. not to mention see the item
in person that you are bidding on. And in person "Live" auctions
are not unending but end when someone IN THE ROOM reaches the
highest bid for that item. The problem with an online 'auction' is
that unless it is "Live" not everyone who is bidding or has bid is
in the room at the same time. Not everyone has the same chance to
bid their highest amount by using strategy which is what one does
when sniping in an effort to 'win' an auction that you may or cannot
be present for. I must add here there Sue Heim says it best when
you tell her that you 'won' an auction on Ebay. To quote Sue..."Oh,
great, congratulations, you won, does that mean you don't have to
pay for it?" HA!
But to say that it's completely fair to continue an auction unending
really means that whoever is present online when Bruce has finally
had enough and says "going, going, gone" thinks it's VERY fair and
the others either won't know when this moving ending line is about
to end or will not be allowed to use the strategy inherent in
bidding for items in person. It's as if what's being created is an
online 'in person' auction where many of the bidders might need to
run to the metaphoric bathroom (or to bed, perchance to dream of a
poster they just lost, or work, or T-Ball games, school plays, etc.)
when the auction they are bidding on finally ends. In other words,
they won't be able to always be there to bid the item up, which
means their only option is that they will be forced to bid their
highest amount before leaving the computer. The online Ebay
'fixed-ending' auction does provide for a level playing field
inasmuch as everyone knows or can strategize using the rules
inherent to the game; either bid early and often or learn how to
snipe or find a service to do it for you. What does it matter if
you bid the most you want to spend with 3 seconds left or 3 days
left? It matters a lot if it's online and NOT "Live." A service
can make time 'relative' and I just see the confusion of a possibly
never-ending auction where the 'finish line' keeps moving as
maddening. I mean how is it considered fair if that item you
coveted finally ends at 9am in NYC but 5 am in Hawaii or elsewhere
around the globe...then you have the audacity to say 'well, I guess
you just didn't want it enough?!' That's ridiculous.
Maybe I'm not understanding the whole pluses and minuses of this
idea, maybe Bruce is planning "Live" auctions which renders all the
ideas within this note moot, but the benefit of the Ebay or any
fixed ending auction is specific to it being 'online' and not
"Live." Fixed ending, online NOT "Live" auctions give the bidder
some modicum of control over when and how they will strategically
bid, especially when considering bidding on several items from
several Sellers, not to mention estimating how and where to budget
for those bids when more than one item is desired from those in
Bruce's auctions while simultaneously bidding on other items from
other Sellers.
Now if only Bruce could figure out how I can 'win' an auction, then
NOT have to pay for it (and still get the item and live happily
every after...). Of course, with all his book giveaways he's the
closest I've ever come to it!
Patrick Tupy
On Feb 25, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Craig Miller wrote:
I'm certain you're honest and believe what you say, but auctions that
continue until people stop bidding are "unfair"? Really? All the
millions of
auctions have occurred over time in places that aren't eBay have been
unfair, because people could bid until they were through? It's only those
auctions where there's an arbitrary ending time that are fair? Especially
when some of the bidders have access to external bidding software; that
makes them really, really fair.
Craig.
At 01:36 AM 2/25/2008, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My Two penneth
Bruce I can understand your feelings about fixed end as opposed to
extended end auctions, however fixed end I think is the fairest way.
If you are at a live auction the hammer drops no more bidding on
that item, same should happen on an internet auction, if you have
the standard ebay seven days then instead open it up to ten days
but the end is the end.
Otherwise how long will an auction go on for.
If a bidder loses out then so be it, he didn't bid enough. We all
have had regrest when bidding "oh I'd have paid an extra $5 or
$10" but what if your opponent had bid an extra $100 or $200 would
you go that far? Maybe and mybe not. I am sure we have all learned
our lessons and had our fingers burned with getting into auction
fever, If that is what you wish to encourage Bruce, but my
personal opinion is that it is not a fair way to operate.
With open ended auctions you could be accused of greed, with such
a business operation that you have Bruce, you don't need to be
tarred with such a brush as your turnover is exemplarary.
The only other point I would make, if you are dispensing with ebay
then you are in the position to makes some savings which you can
pass on to your customers both sides. This will encourage punters
to bid that little extra more.
Apart from that I wish you well with starting your own auction
site I am sure it will be a success with all the past reputation
you have from ebay.
Best of luck.
Adrian
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