I am not certain why everyone is giving Dave a hard time on this issue. Again and again in his short time in the hobby he has proven he has no moral compass and only lets money be his ultimate guidepost.
Whether it is listing fake Jaws poster, reissue Mad Max posters as originals, standing firm in the face of a faded Vertigo, using stock images of fake posters on his website, or just simple misleading wording in his advertising he will do whatever it takes to complete the sale. Sure, just like Tom Loce he might refund your money later on down the line if this Woodstock isn't proven to be a theater issue poster, but just like Tom he knows chances are slim and he will have gotten free use of the buyer's money (at a hyper-inflated price) until that time comes. Of course when he is finally busted on these misdeeds he thankfully has unnamed assistants to blame, or does the usual smoke and mirrors dance about how people really don't believe that you would have a hard time finding a nicer one or the infamous years can go by line (and if he really believes that, one wonders why he continues to use misleading copy), and will point to his glowing feedback as proof that he is a good guy (though Tom Loce has glowing feedback many times that of Dave). I know that when the time comes to sell some of my posters that I will ship them off to Bruce or another seller that does more than just pay lipservice to ethics and caring about their customers rather than sacrifice principles for a dollar. But I guess that's just because my parents raised me better than that, perhaps Dave's father abandoned him when he was young and he was never raised to be an honest person. I don't know, but the continual uproar when he does underhanded and unscrupulous acts is quickly getting old. Aren't you used to it by now? Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:14:04 -0600 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] Real Woodstock posters To: [email protected] Aside from whether these are real or fake, there is also the issue of just how many this guy has. He has sold them all over the place, but seems to keep coming up with more. If he had 20 or 30 of them he would have sold them all to one person and been done with it. He may well have hundreds of these, even if they ARE authentic. So this is one poster where you surely can't say, "Years can go by without one of these coming up for sale"! Also, the vast majority of posters where I say, "We have never seen this particular style one sheet before!" is a poster that is consistent with those of that year. But this one is not, as it is rolled. You write "rolled yes....a red flag certainly.....but not unheard of especially if it was a giveaway". So if it is a "giveaway", then it certainly is not "theater-used" as well. If you want truth in advertising, say it is likely a giveaway from an unknown date. Then if you sell it, the buyer has nothing to complain about. Especially because he is sure to see it over and over and over again in the next few months and years. This reminds me of the "pink" Doc Octopus Spider Man posters a guy was selling on eBay. He ASSURED everyone he had received them at the ComiCon, and that they had given away pink and red ones, and that anyone who preferred a red one could trade the pink one in to him, which bought him more time to sell more of them. Trouble was he disappeared soon after he sold his supply of pink bootlegs, never to be heard from again. Offer this Woodstock poster for sale if you want, but it is never going to sell for much, given its murky origins, and its huge supply. On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 1:03 AM, David Lieberman <[email protected]> wrote: This "everything is fake lately" hysteria is just ridiculous. The conspiracy theorists are alive and well!! (not aimed at you Freeman or Kirby!!) reasons we believe they are authentic.....given the evidence presented so far. 1. full size 27x41 2. right kind of paper consistent with the era....thin stock, glossy/semi gloss front with matte back. 3. LPIU printer union logo. 4. L hash marks on the corners. 5. Some of them have light foxing.....signs of age (so we've been told by a mopo dealer who has a few).....so they are definitely old unless someone faked foxing on a few of them. 6. Print quality is far from perfect.....which suggests authenticity........not repro. If someone were creating a bootleg/fake for resale they would undoubtedly fix the minor printing defects this has. 7. expert opinions from 3 other dealers who have actually handled them (admittedly, they like to stay out of the fray and remain anonymous). 8. I've been told that the source these came from had just a few other titles from that same time period (unconfirmed). 9. If anyone was trying to create a poster to commemorate and capitalize on the 40th anniversary.....it certainly wouldn't be a poster like this.......one that has (see points 1 through 6 above) rolled yes....a red flag certainly.....but not unheard of especially if it was a giveaway. Freeman says there really were no giveaways back then..........well, this I can't really explain...I also can't explain why this particular one sheet (see below how it differs) never seems to have surfaced before until recently. But if you think about it.....how many times have we read in one of Bruce's auctions "We have never seen this particular style one sheet before!" or something to that effect. He doesn't say it often.......but he has said it before. And could it be a commercial poster from spencers, suncoast, etc? Well anything is possible but again it just doesn't seem/feel like a commercial poster. again, here is a closeup of the one we have: http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/aapics09/woodoct09.jpg many coming to light all from the same source.....a bit of a red flag yes....but totally plausible they were tucked away all these years. it is highly unlikely someone just all of a sudden decided to bootleg this poster....one that is far from being in "high demand". look at the bottom of this poster.......it has completely different and more info. than pictures of other woodstock style c one sheets. The two that heritage has sold are different.....one of them is completely blank at the bottom (a rolled wilding poster), and the other is folded...theater issued but with no nss info..... And there are NO credits....blank on the bottom except for the copyright line, the printer union logo, and where it says C style. This one we are selling has full credits. It even gives credit to magnum photos inc. and to the photographers on the bottom right. What does that mean? Is that significant? is this a clue? So where did the supposed bootlegger copy this poster from?? Did he just create the credits?? We only have one by the way......and it is on consignment. I don't expect it to sell....but we have been pleasantly surprised before with this title so we agreed to give it a shot. And rick please get your facts straight....we have NEVER had a rolled cool hand luke one sheet. Never claimed to have one. We did have 1000's of rolled posters from 68-72...but sadly cool hand luke wasn't one of them....and we still have hundreds of obscure titles from this find that are rolled near mint that no one would ever want (well, no one except Rich H as we sent him several a few years ago)...... We have sold several of these rolled one sheets to dozens of mopo members......and not one of them has ever suggested they weren't authentic. Only you. Someone who hasn't even seen one in person.........someone who can't even tell a fake rolled Friday the 13th from a real one. so much petty jealousy in this hobby!! again.....I am more than open to pulling it at the drop of a hat. I just think that it looks and feels real so I'm going with my instinct. If anyone else has anything to add.....just let me know! ---------------------------------------- Hey, Dave, I'm not alone. Guys like Bruce were there, too. I think you're single-handedly attempting to create your own "movie poster reality" in insisting that these obvious reproductions are authentic. It's far more plausible that they're repros than they suddenly appeared out of nowhere after 40 years. It would be different if we were only dealing with the Woodstock one sheets----but we're not. It seems like over the past two or three years you've had more explanations for the appearance of rolled one sheets from the 60's---first Cool Hand Luke, then a dozen other titles. If you proclaim their authentic long enough, people will believe what you're saying is true---with one lame explanation after another for their appearance out of nowhere. I can't believe being the respected dealer that you are---the pride of eBay---that you wouldn't wait until you were ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of a poster's authenticity--to offer it to your trusting clientele. Sure, you say you'll refund every buyer's money if the posters are ultimately found to be reproductions. But tell me, Dave, who's keeping track? You're certainly keeping track of all the money your stuffing into your pockets in the meantime, aren't you....... ---------------------------------------------------- David Lieberman CineMasterpieces.com | 15721 N. Greenway Hayden Loop, Suite 105 -- Scottsdale, Az 85260 Vintage Original Movie Posters | 602 309 0500 | Office/Gallery Open By Appt. Only. Our Facebook Page Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
