Re: [MOPO] real Woodstock posters ??

[Kevin Conway]

Dave, As I mentioned I'm new to this list and I'm not out to make enemies or make accusations about anyone's character.   But, I guess it is a "culture" thing.  As you know from my web site I don’t sell only movie posters but also autographs, sport memorabilia and fine art.   You will run into many autograph sellers in particular (especially from eBay) that will tell you I am an a--hole for confronting their "suspect" activity.  NOT in my real life, but yes with collecting.  Fakes have always been most relevant with autographs. And, from my own experience a more complicated level of expertise required than movie posters.  Kind of like a “sixth sense” what is real and what is not.  Fine Art is even more sophisticated expertise of which I have only a very  limited amount. Obviously, the prospect of crime in the autograph industry is greater than movie posters as the industry has an intense demand for an overseeing body of experts, hence, PSA and JSA.   The movie poster world has no such “higher authority”, so we’re pretty much on our own.  I look at autographs like a piece of history from a historical figure, as movie posters are pieces of Hollywood history.   So, when I see someone selling a blatant fake and even when given overwhelming expert opinion, refuse to let go of the “profit addiction”, it makes me a bit crazy and I get into a lot of battles. I have an obsession with authenticity.  As a matter of fact if you look around at some of my material I go to great lengths to acquire original provenance from sources I buy from.  And, my customers know that if I ever have the slightest doubt of something NOT being authentic it will be immediately removed , even before industry experts notify me  (it just happened with a Mickey Mantle litho I paid a lot for) .  Not that I am such a noble person, it’s just how I am wired.  I cannot clear my conscience if there is a lingering doubt.   A short time ago in this forum there was an “item” posted for sale that was NOT authentic and I was 100% sure on this particular item (I won’t mention the item or name), but after I mentioned it, the seller, instead of maybe appreciating me for pointing it out, sent me a very offensive email, attacking me and my business (which of course I get all the time since they cannot defend their material so they go after me personally).    He didn’t give a crap he was selling a forgery, he was just PO’d  he didn’t profit.    That behavior is toxic to the industry. Some people tell me why bother.  But, I see it another way.  Every time a forgery make it’s way into the market the market becomes contaminated, less credible and possibly the road to extinction or at least scaring collectors and informed clients out of the market.  Fatal to all of us in this forum.    Just my 2 1/2 cents worth... Kevin   -----Original Message----- From: David Lieberman Sent: Nov 30, 2009 3:23 PM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: [MOPO] real Woodstock posters ?? Hi Kevin!   Didn't mean to cause you to become "unsettled", but if you are....so be it.   I really do think its authentic.......if I didn't, I wouldn't have started this topic on mopo in the first place and I would definitely not try to sell it. It is not in my nature to try and "pull one over" on someone.......I'm just not wired that way, despite what some of my critics like to say.   I'm obviously not afraid of a little criticism and controversy......but honestly I see absolutely nothing wrong with trying to sell a poster if I truly believe it is authentic.   one of the things no one has really addressed is the presence of the bottom credits, and how they differ completely from the photo style one sheet. Would a bootlegger/faker go to all that trouble to create his own style credits? Also note that there is no R ratings box on it and it has no nss paragraph or number.   and Rich I luv ya but sheesh!!! enough about the vertigo poster already!....from day one, minute one I always said I thought it was faded....as soon as I saw it. Someone with more experience than me told me it might not be faded, that some were printed that color.....so I went with it.......fully describing that it may be faded...........but only after the uproar here I changed it to say it was definitely faded.   David Lieberman CineMasterpieces.com | 15721 N. Greenway Hayden Loop, Suite 105 -- Scottsdale, Az 85260 Vintage Original Movie Posters | 602 309 0500 | Office/Gallery Open By Appt. Only. Our Facebook Page   In a message dated 11/30/2009 11:33:27 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, treasur...@earthlink.net writes: "and again.....if any evidence surfaces proving it not to be authentic, I'll gladly pull it. Not a big deal"   WOW! , Though I've only been on this list for a couple months (even though I've collecting and sold movie posters since 1980 while in the Navy) , this comment is truly unsettling. .     I have always heard, on a more regular basis,  unscrupulous autograph sellers , especially on eBay , say the same thing KNOWING the chances of an unsuspecting buyer/victim ever getting it authenticated is highly unlikely.  And,  99.9% of the time such an inexperienced  would NOT even know HOW to get it authenticated. .   I am actually quite disappointed that there are "shady" sides of the movie poster industry that I've been , up until the last few months unaware of.   Although I've seen these "rolled" posters advertised , my own opinion,was to not take them seriously. I even had a client ask me about them and advised him to stay way from them and ALL vintage "rolled" posters, not just from certain dealers. .  The odds AGAINST their authenticity are just too overwhelming.  And, I even advise such on my web site   Kevin Conway  -----Original Message----- From: David Lieberman Sent: Nov 30, 2009 12:54 PM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: [MOPO] real Woodstock posters   healthy discussion!   Thank you Andy Neal for the support.   and thank you Ron Moore for your level headed opinion.   and I really do appreciate the input from Kirby and Freeman.   and Bruce, we aren't saying "theater used"......we are saying "for promotional display/use".   and again.....if any evidence surfaces proving it not to be authentic, I'll gladly pull it. Not a big deal.   If I didn't think it was real, I wouldn't try and sell it as real. Period. Anyone who thinks I would do otherwise is just flat out wrong.   and wow.......gotta love the suspicious cynics......those who always think the worst. My bashers!!...."underhanded and unscrupulous"...ha!...those ryan boys (are they brothers james and rick?....makes sense if they are) really are a jealous pair aren't they? Creating lies about me to get his/their point across is just pathetic. The day I start worrying about anything he/they say will be the day he/they can sell a poster for more than 50 bucks.   and there is NOT a lot of money at stake here for me. I stand to make about a hundred bucks (whoopeee!) if I sell this one...and again I don't expect to sell it...(I only have this one...no more).  It was consigned to us by a long time client, a very advanced collector.....who also happens to think it is authentic. We only do on site consignment for items worth $500 or more, so we just agreed to do this one as a favor to him as he usually sends in very hi end items for consignment...not like this poster.   and thank you for mentioning the child rearing ability of my father, whom I played golf with this past weekend. I'll forward the message to him as I know he will be amused that his parenting skills are being vilified on an internet message board by some anonymous bozo.   and as for the infamous line in my listings:   "These can be very difficult to find in any condition! A long time can go by without one of these coming up for sale"   the only reason........and I really mean the ONLY reason that I still keep that in there is that I know it just irritates the hell out of those who hate me. :)     David Lieberman CineMasterpieces.com | 15721 N. Greenway Hayden Loop, Suite 105 -- Scottsdale, Az 85260 Vintage Original Movie Posters | 602 309 0500 | Office/Gallery Open By Appt. Only. Our Facebook Page Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Kevin Conway Conway's Vintage Treasures www.CVTreasures.com Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Kevin Conway Conway's Vintage Treasures www.CVTreasures.com Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.