I don't know the situation with Debi -- and it's obvious she can't
comment on it publicly with a lawsuit in the offing -- but why doesn't
anyone (Sean in particular) consider the fact that she might have wanted
to refund the money but simply did not have it to refund? I mean -- to
pose a hypothetical -- say she paid Kerry or whomever $40,000 for the
item and then resold it to Jim for, say $50,000. She only made $10,000
on the deal, but Jim wants his $50,000 back. She doesn't have it unless
she can get her original $40,000 back from Kerry or whomever she bought
it from -- she's short $40,000 of what she "owes" to Jim.
Are people saying she should be out both the $40,000 she paid for the
item PLUS the $50,000 Jim wants back? Obviously she should return
whatever profit she made on the deal to Jim... but if neither one of
them knew they were dealing with a forgery, why Jim should take zero
loss and Debi take the hit for both of them to the tune of an $80,000
loss? How is that fair and equitable if Debi didn't know she was being
sold a fake in the first place? She's just as much of a victim as Jim
is, isn't she?
Nope, sorry, but if she were an innocent dupe and had no idea she was
passing on a forgery, then she has a perfect right to tell Jim, "I'm
sorry this happened, but I simply don't have $40,000 of your money to
return to you right now and I won't have it until I get the money back
that I paid for the item in the first place, so you'll have to get in
line for that just like me and everyone else."
It's all well and good if you are Heritage and have a ton of money
sloshing around in your bank account -- plus an hefty insurance policy
to cover you against contingencies likes this -- but if you're just a
regular person/seller like Debi, how are you supposed to come up with
the money for a refund unless you can get your own money back from the
con men first?
Maybe some on this list have an extra $40,000 (or whatever the actual
amount is) laying around that they can just hand out "on principle", but
I'm afraid 99% of the people don't have that option. I doubt many movie
posters sellers are in any financial position to take a $40,000 loss and
then come up with the ready cash to take an additional $40,000 loss on
top of that to make a refund.
However, Debi should have at least offered to immediately refund to Jim
any profit she made on the transaction. Perhaps she did that, but Jim
refused to accept a partial refund. His lawyer would probably advise him
not to. But we don't know the details and won't know until and if the
case goes to public trial. I'll agree that in a perfect world where we
all have tons of free cash lying around that Debi should have refunded
all of Jim's money immediately and then worried about getting her own
back from Kerry & Co., but most of us just don't live in that world and
wouldn't have that option if it were us standing in Debi's shoes.
-- JR
Sean Linkenback wrote:
Jim,
you do realize that this is a civil suit and not a criminal one, yes?
Innocent until proven guilty isn't really a term used in this case,
that's for criminal trials (such as Haggard's upcoming trial when the
FBI arrest him).
But I wasn't attacking Debi, just expressing my disbelief that her
dealings with Jim have had to come to a lawsuit.
In this particular case the facts are quite clear:
1. Jim paid Debi for a lobby card (that she apparently received in a
trade from Haggard)
2. This lobby card was later determined to be fake
3. Jim returned the lobby card to Debi and is awaiting a refund
There can only be a few reasons that Debi is refusing to refund in
this situation.
1. Jim DIDN'T pay Debi for this item, or Debi did not accept payment
for it (Jim's proof of payment says this is not true).
2. The lobby card ISN'T fake (report from Carol Tincup says this is
not the situation)
3. Jim DIDN'T return the card to Debi (proof of receipt says this
isn't true).
4. Jim switched out a real card for a fake one? (a ridiculous idea
that anyone who knows Jim would attest to)
5. Jim somehow profited from the deal and Debi is refusing to refund
(not sure how you profit when you spend money buying a fake, but I'm
listing it anyways)
For months Bruce has been warning of the dangers of dealing with
people who have sold fakes and would not accept responsibility for
doing so, here we have clear evidence of a supposedly reputable dealer
selling a fake and not refunding the customer who has purchased it.
Debi needs to do the right thing and refund Jim Gresham and pursue the
forger who sold/traded her the fake just as many others are doing.
And Jim, to answer your question - NO. Like Bruce, in my years of
dealing I have never had a lawsuit or a court case, either against me
or initiated by me.
I guess having some sort of a moral compass and actually attempting to
do the right thing instead of just pay lip service to the concept has
served me well so far.
Sean
----- Original Message -----
*From:* jim episale <mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:19 AM
*Subject:* Re: [MOPO] Universal Horror Fraud Update
Sean
It is really beyond belief that you continue until attack Debi.
Have you NEVER been involved in a lawsuit? The First thing that
your attorney tells you is not to discuss the case. It will be
interesting to see what finally comes out. And I hope that you
will be as quick to apologize as you have been to criticize As
for me I still believe in the adage of our American Justice system
" Innocent Until PROVEN Guilty".
jim
Check out our shop video
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Unshredded Nostalgia
323 South main St. Route 9
Barnegat, N.J. 08005
800-872-9990 609-660-2626
"Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional."
*From:* MoPo List [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf
Of *Sean Linkenback
*Sent:* Monday, January 11, 2010 5:43 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* [MOPO] Universal Horror Fraud Update
There have been two new cases filed against sellers of fake
Universal Horror posters:
/GC 091284 James Gresham v. Debi Jacobson/
/CV 06529 Movietime, Inc. et al v. Haggard/
It is no surprise to see another case against Haggard (this time
by the owners of the eBay ID JerseryProductions), and anyone else
who has been defrauded by Haggard needs to act soon to preserve
their rights against his pending bankruptcy filing.
But it is sad to see Debi Jacobson still refusing to take
responsibility for selling a Universal horror fake. For someone
who wanted to "do the right thing", I guess the right thing means
defending against a lawsuit instead of refunding a customer who
returned a fake item to her several months ago.
Makes me quite glad that I deal with people like Bruce, Heritage,
Todd F., and others who stand 100% behind their material and offer
unconditional money-back guarantees
(as I also do), and not dealers who offer questionable tactics and
hide behind attorneys.
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