SA, This post has caused a volcanic tremor within the marrow of my bones. There are ten-thousand voices wanting to be heard. If I may paraphrase for all those voices. I heard recently that the Koran states that it is better to be born a donkey than a woman. These voices shout loudly 'MAN IS A JACKASS!!!' Having said that I want you to know I LOVE men (and Siegfried in particular).
I recently suggested you read Besserman's 'A New Zen for Women'. You dismissed it for another day. Why, probably because it is written by a woman about a woman's experience? Most books are written by men, or for men, or by women using a man's voice. This book seems authentic writing of a woman's experience. Bravo to Ms. Besserman for trying to be honest! Again, I suggest you read this book. I know Lila and Lilith. I know Erda, Isis, Astarte, Diana, Hecate, Demeter, Kali, Inanna, etc., etc., etc. They are buried alive in my bone marrow. It's not that I wouldn't like to continue this discussion. I would. I just don't think we have any shared experience which would make it meaningful. Marsha At 12:21 AM 12/23/2007, you wrote: >Marsha, > > Marsha, I wonder about this depiction of females >of evil, too, and I found two depictions (a more >positive one and a more negative one) of Lila: one >'western' (more negative) and one Sanskrit/Hindu (more >positive). Have you or anybody else come across this >before? I'll explain what I came across as follows: > > > Here is an interesting trace of a woman named >Lilith or Lila that goes way back to Sumer and >scholars note this mythological story must have even >deeper historical/prehistorical roots. I also find >Goethe wrote about her, the Grecro-Roman mythology, >Arabic mythology, etc... > Two internet sources depict how Lilith or Lila is >understood within the same Indo-European language, >yet, a seeming divergence took place somewhere and >Sanskrit depicts Lila in a more positive light and the >'western' version has Lila in a more negative light. >Here are the two links as follows: > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lila > > > Note, in the links above, Lilith is the 'western' >version. > Lila is the Sanskrit version. Within the Lilith >link above the Etymology of Lilith includes Lila. > > The rest of this post are describes some of what I >read so far, what lead me to search Lilith, and some >thoughts that stirred due to what has become >fascinatingly connective to the book Lila by Pirsig. > I was watching the History Channel on TV about >books of the bible that are not in the bible. On this >show, Lilith was described and the commentators also >mentioned that Lilith means Lila. > The bible has two creation stories in Genesis. >Rabbi's associate the first woman who was created by >G-d with man (as opposed to the second woman who was >created from Adam's rib) was a woman equal to man (see >quote below). This woman created from G-d just as >Adam was created from G-d is named Lilith. Her name >does not show up in the King James Version of the >bible until the book of Isaiah, but Rabbi's associate >Lilith with this first woman created before the second >woman named Eve. Keep in mind, this first woman was >equal and meant equality to Adam, until Adam wanted to >subdue her, she refused this dominating act of Adam, >and then in turn refused the garden of Eden and left. >After leaving the garden, this is when negative >connotations are associated with Lilith/Lila in the >'western' versions. > So, I looked up Lilith and found a wikpedia >reference to her (see above). She is socially seen as >a prostitute corrupting society, biologically she >seduces young males at night (wet-dreams) and may kill >babies at night, she is also referred to as the night >or the wind, she leads one away from understanding, >and she is seen as a demon, thus, is in the mystical >world, too. This is one quote as follows from >wiki/Lilith: > > "However, what this association does not take >into account are additional descriptions of the >"Seductress" from Qumran that cannot be found >attributed to the "strange woman" of Proverbs; namely, >her horns and her wings: "a multitude of sins is in >her wings." The woman illustrated in Proverbs is >without question a prostitute, or at the very least, >the representation of one, and the sort of individual >with whom that texts community would have been >familiar. The "Seductress" of the Qumran text, >conversely, could not possibly have represented an >existent social threat given the constraints of this >particular ascetic community. Instead, the Qumran text >utilizes the imagery of Proverbs to explicate a much >broader, supernatural threat the threat of the >demoness Lilith." > > > Notice, Lilith if not on the "community" level or >seen not as a "social threat", she turns up in those >communities as a "supernatural threat". > > > What's also interesting is that this 'western' >approach to Lila/Lilith is in a more negative light, >whereas the kin Indo-European language of these >'western' versions known as Sanskrit and found in the >Hindu religion applies Lila in a more positive light. > > Here is another quote from wiki/Lilith where >Lilith/Lila is perceived more positively, but also >shows how this more positive light turns seemingly >negative as follows: > > > "After God created Adam, who was alone, He said, >'It is not good for man to be alone.' He then created >a woman for Adam, from the earth, as He had created >Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith >immediately began to fight. She said, 'I will not lie >below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but >only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom >position, while I am to be the superior one.' Lilith >responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we >were both created from the earth.' But they would not >listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she >pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the >air." > > > Did anybody comes across this before? I know on >the "Lila" link given above, Pirsig is mentioned as >well as others such as Joseph Campbell, Heinrich >Zimmer, Fritjof Capra, and Alan Watts, to name some. > > >night woods, >SA > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Be a better friend, newshound, and >know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it >now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
