Hi Bo
You wrote: >Voltaire was an SOM (intellectual) fanatic. We have concentrated >much on Descartes as the philosophical pioneer, but Voltaire >surely was the political one and the French Revolution the turning >point in intellect's struggle with society ... in Europe. Pirsig sees >the end of WW1 (President Wilson) as intellect assuming the top >political job in the US - Americans notoriously believes they are >the hub of the world you know :-) . That they do =) And perhaps America has had a certain Dynamic Quality about it, something that might explain much of the appeal about America - in a way the American Dream is of course a somewhat devilish tool to keep people pacified and to not to ask to much of their government (this version of the American dream being the ideal of fighting up from the lowest levels of society and reaching the top by one self) But there is also another, the original one perhaps, that precisely because it is quite undefined other than in the aspect of it being the dream of progress and "can be done" so to speak. Things like that can go wrong though. But, this is all OT. >It looks like you understand, but I must repeat: Everyone around >this site regard SOM as a villain that has corrupted an innocent >but dynamic intellect. In other words, they see it as a mental cup >that can contain all kinds of "ideas" - SOM one idea, the MOQ >another - much like mind. But this is untenable, intellect is the >S/O distinction and it's a huge value, consequently it's no evil >that the the MOQ can push out of sight. The MOQ itself is no >intellectual pattern, it's "out of intellect" but no longer part of it, >rather the very "system" that has intellect as its highest static >good. S/O Metaphysics is bad but the S/O distinction is good. >The "mystic MOQ" (with a "dynamic intellect) that most people >believe is the true MOQ (that must be protected against this >"revisionist") is in fact SOM's tentacles refusing to let go. The >mystic MOQ is just a more subtle SOM, Quality the objective >entity that the MOQ is just a theory about. This is the sad state, >the MOQ is not ready to enter any struggle for supremacy against >SOM because SOM is still in place. I have tried to re-enact the >role of MOQ's "Voltaire", but ...it ain't easy. Ah, I see what you mean. And I think I agree, and it makes me anxious. Why can't people just be satisfied with Zen? However I do understand the need for people to "fix" the problems with western-thought with the MOQ - it is easier to use it because they don't need to drop their old SOM awareness totally to gain.peace of mind? But perhaps this is the greatest threat to the MOQ. It pains me to think about the MOQ going under because of the dogmatic nature of the SOM - that is still less painful to think about than it is to think about the MOQ failing because of inability of the people promoting it to break free from their own SOM ghosts. ( Hmm, I seem top have a trait of overdramatizing haven't I? ) Well, anyway, I think I understand what you mean about it not being right to see the SOM as a "villain" in that sense. But. you write: "The MOQ itself is no intellectual pattern, it's "out of intellect" but no longer part of it, rather the very "system" that has intellect as its highest static good. S/O Metaphysics is bad but the S/O distinction is good." Well, If it is so - And I find the thought intriguing, how do you think this will establish itself - because undoubtedly it must take charge of Intellect; if it is not intellect, that is the goal of the higher value patterns is it not? But.I'm sure you have done this already, but could you perhaps elaborate as to why you conclude the MOQ to be a new level; or perhaps tell me where I can read about it if you have written about it earlier. (I wrote a question earlier under another topic: "Do you mean that thoughts about gods and the like that originated as early as perhaps 5-6000 B.C. is not a manifestation of intellectual patterns? " ) >> Oh, and by the way, Karl XII fought at Poltava - besserwisser note =D >Right, I should have checked, it was at Lützen. Yep =) Med vänlig hälsning Chris Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
