> [Krimel] > Then all governments, societies and systems of morality are collective. > They all set limits on the freedom of individuals. They all seek to > promote static patterns in the behavior of members of society.
[Platt] Yes. You've identified the threat to individual liberty perfectly. As Pirsig points out, the proper role of social "systems" is not to interfere in the free market place of goods or ideas as left-wing socialists want to do, but to protect individuals from biological crime. [Krimel] Fortunately the free world is composed of mixed economies not the polarities you propose. I real do not think Pirsig would endorse your jingoistic interpretation of his work. I believe he found bleakness in the socialist cultures of the Warsaw pact which were economic mixtures of communism and authoritarianism. > [Platt] > Indeed. How about happiness? > > [Krimel] > So how would you measure this? Without some reference point how do you > know whether happiness is up or down? How can you say which systems > produce more or less of it? [Platt] I refer you to an article I've mentioned before written by those who have established such measures, not by theorizing about systems but by interviewing actual people. Check out: http://www.ebookmall.com/ebook/66883-ebook.htm [Krimel] So rather than answer the question you urge me to buy a book. No thanks, if you read it perhaps your summary could provide a bit of incentive. Reviews on the page you link suggest it is tedious until the two page summary at the end. Perhaps you could forward that. In the meantime a couple of weeks ago I attended a lecture by bioethicist Steven Post. I do have a copy of his book 'Why Good Things Happen to Good People.' In it he summarizes a myriad of studies on the effects of happiness on people. The include studies based on life satisfaction surveys, longitudinal studies of groups and analysis of fMRI studies on individuals. His conclusion is that happiness produces health and that happiness arises form interacting with and helping other people. I would suggest that a society that focuses on materialism and selfishness at the expense of quality interaction and relationship is in trouble. That trouble manifests itself is isolation, estranged families and diversion from meaningful interpersonal relationships. BTW, if you are interested you can listen to the lecture here: http://www.fcsr.net/media/Web%20Lectures/Dr.%20Post.mp3 [Platt] Less government doesn't mean anarchy. But, I'm not surprised you favor a host of regulations. Left-wingers always do. As for economic forces, I'll take them over the KGB any day. [Krimel] If less government is better then no government would be best. Or are you content to be a little pregnant. Right wingers embrace regulation when it suits them whine when it doesn't. But hypocrisy does not seem to trouble their sleep. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
