Hi Joe 26 March:
Bo before: > But it's here I think the MOQ can open up new paths - for > instance to Artificial Intelligence - a field which is completely > stalled inside SOM that requires computers to wake up to > consciousness, something that won't happen because this is a result of > the social level that resulted in the intellectual level where > consciousness exist as the said S/O pattern - consciousness/what it's > conscious of . A detached awareness - a "Brain in a Vat" (E.A. Poe) > does not exist. Joe comments: > In the excerpt of the statement above the first paragraph accepts an > explanation of evolution to existential levels. Consciousness is > equated to value. Perhaps I am just misreading it. Does > ³consciousness² have to be subject/object? Is there a reality of > ³consciousness² all by itself? What is the dynamic? How is the social > level defined? The MOQ says that we till now have lived inside the SOM, consequently the concept "consciousness" is a SOM product. I bet you can go through Homer's "The Iliad" and/or the Old Testament (pre-intellect - social level - books) without finding references to consciousness the said concept did not exist at that time. At first glance consciousness sounds like a state - that of being aware - but upon closer examination it is a S/O derivative "subjective consciousness/the objects it is conscious of" and if the MOQ is to replace SOM (transcend intellect) it (consciousness) will not retain this god-like quality, but will become each level's perception of its respective value. > IMO consciousness survives very well in the MOQ on its own as the > social level. Evolution moves from the social level to the > intellectual level of law. Yes, value consciousness will survive, but the disembodied "Brain in the Vat" awareness is clearly a SOM myth. Look, Joe, almost all creatures sleep and must necessarily wake up to a reality different from oblivion, and for animals that reality is the biological one, as rich and many-splendored as the social and intellectual. The issue of awareness has been a pain in the --- for SOM-based philosophy, also here the MOQ provides a better understanding. What you mean by "from the social level to the intellectual level of law" I don't understand. > If the intellectual level is not distinguished from AI as evolution > then evolution stops. The awareness in language becomes indiscernible. > The credibility of evolution is challenged and value returns to being > a commodity. Most cryptic dear Joe (send me your decipher code ;) I haven't got a clue what these things mean, "awareness of language" for instance. Anyway, I repeat that intellect's mistake is to believe that computers (if/when sophisticated enough) will wake up and think: "Ah, I'm a computer". This will never happen because consciousness (in THAT role) is a hoax. Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
