On Friday 28 March 2008 12:00 AM Joe writes to Bo of: 26 March: Bo before: > But it's here I think the MOQ can open up new paths - for > instance to Artificial Intelligence - a field which is completely > stalled inside SOM that requires computers to wake up to > consciousness, something that won't happen because this is a result of > the social level that resulted in the intellectual level where > consciousness exist as the said S/O pattern - consciousness/what it's > conscious of . A detached awareness - a "Brain in a Vat" (E.A. Poe) > does not exist. Joe comments: > In the excerpt of the statement above the first paragraph accepts an > explanation of evolution to existential levels. Consciousness is > equated to value. Perhaps I am just misreading it. Does > ³consciousness² have to be subject/object? Is there a reality of > ³consciousness² all by itself? What is the dynamic? How is the social > level defined? Hi Bo [BO] The MOQ says that we till now have lived inside the SOM, consequently the concept "consciousness" is a SOM product. I bet you can go through Homer's "The Iliad" and/or the Old Testament (pre-intellect - social level - books) without finding references to consciousness the said concept did not exist at that time. [BO] At first glance consciousness sounds like a state - that of being aware - but upon closer examination it is a S/O derivative "subjective consciousness/the objects it is conscious of" and if the MOQ is to replace SOM (transcend intellect) it (consciousness) will not retain this god-like quality, but will become each level's perception of its respective value. [JOE] FORMIDABLE! BEAUTIFUL! I can¹t say it better. Will consciousness retain this god-like quality if SOL is replaced by CML (conscious/mechanical logic)? > IMO consciousness survives very well in the MOQ on its own as the > social level. Evolution moves from the social level to the > intellectual level of law. [Bo] Yes, value consciousness will survive, but the disembodied "Brain in the Vat" awareness is clearly a SOM myth. Look, Joe, almost all creatures sleep and must necessarily wake up to a reality different from oblivion, and for animals that reality is the biological one, as rich and many-splendored as the social and intellectual. The issue of awareness has been a pain in the --- for SOM-based philosophy, also here the MOQ provides a better understanding. [Bo] What you mean by "from the social level to the intellectual level of law" I don't understand. [Joe] At the social level the individual is ³alone², ³empty², aware only of himself. At the Intellectual level the individual is in a relationship of law to the other e.g. gravity. [Joe] > If the intellectual level is not distinguished from AI as evolution > then evolution stops. The awareness in language becomes > indiscernible. The credibility of evolution is challenged and value > returns to being a commodity. [Bo] Most cryptic dear Joe (send me your decipher code ;) I haven't got a clue what these things mean, "awareness of language" for instance. Anyway, I repeat that intellect's mistake is to believe that computers (if/when sophisticated enough) will wake up and think: "Ah, I'm a computer". This will never happen because consciousness (in THAT role) is a hoax. Bo [Joe] A Google of Consciousness in Esoteric literature reveals: Decipher code from the blogger: Michael Sharp Michael Sharp in The Book of Light elucidates a Kabbalistic cosmology where "consciousness is the root" of all things including (and perhaps especially) the physical universe and all its dimensions. According to Sharp, consciousness "unfolds" from the original, monadic I (the single point) to the current state of trillions upon trillions of monads which exist in multiple dimensions and in multiple universes. As consciousness unfolds through the twelve levels of The Unfolding, dimensions are added as a sort of epiphenomenon (i.e., they emerge because of the peculiar state of consciousness). First there is perspective, then chance, then time, space, etc. All told there are twelve "dimensions" of existence that correspond to the twelve levels in The Unfolding. Not all of these dimensions correlate directly to physical aspects of the physical multiverse but all of them are rooted in the changing composition (state) of consciousness. Sharp's cosmology is particularly interesting because no matter how complex the universe gets, it is ultimately all an aspect or a state of the grand creator consciousness. It is also interesting because the cosmology does away, for better or worse, with traditional esoteric canon regarding "soul evolution" and replaces it with the collective alleviation of boredom. That is, it is not our purpose to advance towards God, work towards redemption, or redeem ourselves from sin. Like the artist who paints a canvas or the musician that plays a song, it is our purpose to create in an interesting and entertaining fashion. [Joe] Commentary: Levels are known in evolution! This is a popular subject for thought. I do not think ³consciousness² is an S/O derivative. From a metaphysical perspective on evolution a conscious/mechanical evolution CML is easier to understand than SOL. Levels follow an order of creation. The Greek tradition is only one tradition. IMO the DQ/SQ insight is only realizable in an evolutionary environment. DQ conscious (order 7) is placed next to SQ mechanical (manifestation 3) on the whim of evolution progressing, and here we are! Joe
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