Hi Magnus, Firstly, preamble - I have no problem distinguishing levels 1 from 2 or 2 from 3/4
1 to 2 we introduce "life" Where life is once off communication of information from generation to genetaion (ie genetic information). 3 to 4 we introduce "thought" Where thoughts are information that can be communicated within and across the lifetimes of any living generations (ie memetic information). 3/4 we have many different ways of organising thoughts. The principle distinguishing feature is that in level 3 the value of thoughts are set by tradition and authority, where as in 4 the value of thought is established by more "individual" thought. Secondly, on your point about patterns that cross levels 2 and 3. That's not a problem, just a fact. The levels can be distinct, but many patterns involve multiple levels, yet the way those levels are involved can be quite clear. Brains are a classic fascinating example. Physical, biological and errr ... "mental" for want of a better word. Ian On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Magnus Berg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Ian > > ian: > > Chris, > > I would say > > > > Ideas and thoughts exist as ... > > > > Patterns that emerge in, or can be represented in, patterns in > > physio-electro-chemical activities in a "brain". > > > > Where, > > > > Physio-electro-chemical activities are patterns in the physical > > substrate of a "brain", > > > > And a "brain" is > > > > Either (biological) patterns in the emergent biological patterns that > > arise in the physical substrate. > > > > Or (physical machine / tablet of stone) patterns in patterns in > > patterns .... in patterns in the physical substrate. > > The problem with this or-clause is that it translates badly to the four > levels. Why would ideas and thoughts create this extra-level as a > sibling to the biological? > > Isn't your reaction that you must merge these two different levels into one? > > Magnus > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
