Hi Peter Sat. 12 April you said:
> Bo, the artifacts left by the dead and those arranged in tombs to > commemorate them is a signature of their self-consciousness. With all respect Pete, this is too "modern". The burial mounds of which the pyramids are most famous, with their content was far from any "commeorial" motives, but to (how to say it) meet otherworldly needs, not that this or that thing was to be used literally, the vikings often burned the lot - ship, horses, weapons (these were even bent out of shape in beforehand) - they weren't that "stupid". These things also rose from the ashes in the other world. Very much like the "semitic" religions' belief in corporeal resurrection and for this to be effective every sliver of a body must be in place. Jahveh, most strict on this point, while Allah makes an exception for martyrs ;-) > The idea that their self-consciousness indicated an eternal life > manifested temporarily in a physical body however, would have been > too complicated for them; I think the life eternal was invented as a > comforting metaphysics only to give reason to the suffering of life > and to avoid the apparent futility of living. In the end we can only > guess about how our ancestor's thought, and today, though > conversation with people in the religious mindset is available > nevertheless it does not seem to clarify our new metaphysics. Right, a concrete body imbued with abstract life, was not their reality (not too complicated though) and the comforting explanation I don't subscribe to, theirs was a social value existence, meaning that Cave Man's world and latter day (Semitic) religions are only variations of the same theme. I also believe that we know what our ancestors "thought". We are of the social level too and know what it is like when emotions overwhelm reason and .... the MOQ offers the first explanation why murder becomes a virtue in war and why there occurs situations when people freely sacrifice their life. > If Pirsig's four levels are seen as evolving levels of being just as > some apes may now have intimations of self awareness so we must > begin to ask what may be the characteristics of a possible fifth > level; certainly an openness to what Doris Lessing called the > substance of 'We' feeling and also, I suggest, a new way of thinking > that seeks to re-incorporate the mind with the body. "Self-awareness" has no place in the MOQ, it's an intellectual invention - valuable there, but in the DQ/SQ metaphysics there are just value "awareness". As I have said a million times, all creatures sleep and must necessarily wake up to a state different from oblivion. When we wake up from sleep it can be through all levels, first a sensation of having to p..., then an emotion comes to mind, and then - finally - one starts to think of the deep things one is to write on the MD about ;-). In my ridiculous opinion. Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
