> [Krimel] > Science is threatened by religion? That's news. Name a single instance of > a conflict between them that religion has won.
[Platt] The realm of the spirit not to mention morality. [Krimel] So religion wins hands down when science takes no interest? I have found at red lights that my little Yaris kicks the crap out of Corvettes, BMWs and Mercedes all the time when only I know we are racing. [Platt] But as to threats, why is science so defensive about religion if it doesn't feel threatened by it? Take Dawkins, for example. [Krimel] Since you are so well read on Dawkins perhaps you could provide some examples from his work. In the mean time here is an example given by Dawkins: Albert Einstein who was ridiculed and reviled by believers for saying that he did not believe in a personal God. If he felt threatened it was certainly not the threat of higher intellect. It would been fear of being beset by idiots: "An American Roman Catholic lawyer, working on behalf of an ecumenical coalition, wrote to Einstein: 'We deeply regret that you made your statement . . . in which you ridicule the idea of a personal God. In the past ten years nothing has been so calculated to make people think that Hitler had some reason to expel the Jews from Germany as your statement.'" "A New York rabbi said: 'Einstein is unquestionably a great scientist, but his religious views are diametrically opposed to Judaism.'" "The president of a historical society in New Jersey wrote... 'We respect your learning, Dr Einstein; but there is one thing you do not seem to have learned: that God is a spirit and cannot be found through the telescope or microscope, no more than human thought or emotion can be found by analyzing the brain. As everyone knows, religion is based on Faith, not knowledge.'" "the Founder of the Calvary Tabernacle Association in Oklahoma: Professor Einstein, I believe that every Christian in America will answer you, 'We will not give up our belief in our God and his son Jesus Christ, but we invite you, if you do not believe in the God of the people of this nation, to go back where you came from.' I have done everything in my power to be a blessing to Israel, and then you come along and with one statement from your blasphemous tongue, do more to hurt the cause of your people than all the efforts of the Christians who love Israel can do to stamp out anti-Semitism in our land. Professor Einstein, every Christian in America will immediately reply to you, 'Take your crazy, fallacious theory of evolution and go back to Germany where you came from, or stop trying to break down the faith of a people who gave you a welcome when you were forced to flee your native land.' Finally here is one that should be near and dear to your heart: "Other Catholic clergymen chimed in: 'There is no other God but a personal God . . . Einstein does not know what he is talking about. He is all wrong. Some men think that because they have achieved a high degree of learning in some field, they are qualified to express opinions in all.'" > [Krimel] > Even if I granted your list and let you add the Piltdown man and cold > fusion, the internet with all its storage could not contain the list of > wrong answers provided by people who didn't know what they were talking > about. But these are the people you run to first. [Platt] What wrong answers? Given by whom? Who named you infallible? [Krimel] Ok, this has to be my half dozenth post. I could be wrong. Help me out here and give me some examples of people who don't know what they are talking about and yet turn out to be right. Besides you that is. After all we are only half way there in your case. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
