Arlo, I really am a Polyanna. It honestly had not occurred to me before reading that last vile bit from Ham that racism was even an issue. I was willing to accept that there were legitimate libertarian style arguments going on. I have flirted with libertarianism myself in the past. Truth is I even considered after sending those rather harshly worded posts that perhaps I was misreading Ham and maybe all those buzzwords and euphemisms did not mean what they so clearly seemed to mean. But I believed Colin Powell's WMD speech to the UN too.
I think the Neanderthal Neocons are right Liberals do have too much faith in the innate goodness of others. It does result in lots of disappointment but I refuse to repent of it. Beside how could people who claim to love beauty and seek after some ultimate purpose at the core of reality be even suspected of racism? Delusion perhaps, but surely not hatefulness. As I said I grew up in the south and I understand this stuff. My grandfather was blatantly racist in the 60s. I worked with and grew up with hardcore rednecks some of them Klansmen. Even today my father-in-law, a life long democrat, will not vote for Obama purely as a matter of race. But the man is in his 80s and it's not like he has white robes in his closet. He just grew up in Alabama in a bygone age. I don't throw racism out as a rhetorical ploy. I have no problem offering up intellectual arguments against it. Hell, I might even be willing to dispute you on the bell curve issue but I thought all that was unnecessary. Oh well what do I know? Guess I can just sit here and wait for the next dream to shatter. Krimel -----Original Message----- From: Arlo Bensinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MD] WHY MoQ IS PARALYzED [Krimel had said] So you are actually stating, unequivocally, that you support Ham's blatantly racist rhetoric? [Platt] Typical leftist ploy. You don't like what someone says so you try to intimidate into silence by a personal attack. [Arlo] From one who deploys the Mighty Wurlizter of "collectivist totalitarianism" and "statist Marxism" at every turn, I suppose you would know. Nonetheless, Krimel is not engaging in a personal attack, he is correctly exposing the ugly filth behind the despicable rhetoric and jargoning that you and Ham use. But just like you did in the education thread, as soon as that is cast into the light, you cower away, mutter some bad words about "political correctness" and try to act like its you who are the "victim" of some horrible personal attack. From bemoaning that you can't use "Obama's middle name" (yet I've never seen you use McCain's), to decrying political correctness for not being able say "Obama only gets votes because he is black" (yet have never answered if it would be wrong, or racist, for someone to suggest that McCain "only gets votes because he is white"), to appearing concerned about "black crime" (isn't crime crime?), to your as yet unanswered remarks about the success of public education in Japan and Finland "due to their being monocultural societies", to cheering laws to forcibley deny Muslim women the right to wear headscarves if they so choose, to my first "encounter" with you on this list as you championed "the bell curve"... where you answered mark heyman's statement, "But there is NO scientific support for the idea, say, that members of any one "race" are less intelligent or more prone to aggression than members of a different "race" by supporting "except for the "The Bell Curve", to recent talks on interracial marriage where you supported the idea that "interracial marriage" may be behind "the decline of society", to finally the also unanswered question, what the hell do you wish you could say but feel "political correctness" prevents you? (calling blacks "niggers"? the mentally disabled "retards"?) I've also followed this "elitism" bullshit with a smile, as one on hand you hate "elitist perfessers" but on the other rage against "egalitarianism". Seems "elite" is only a "bad word" when somehow "white and American" don't end up on the top of the pile. The recent flak over Obama's comments are so hypocritic, considering these are the people you call "moochers", and have proposed that they "have nothing to contribute to the dynamic evolution of society". What if Obama had said that?!?! You've been quite clear a number of times that Joe Miner from West Virginny does not hold near the "value" that Mighty Sam Walton does for society. The riff-raff should cover their faces with rags when these Captains of Business ride by in their top hat and gentlemen's cloaks. Indeed, when I described the poverty of the mining communities my grandfather grew up in, your response was in paraphrase "if he was too stupid to move, he deserved what he got". "Let them eat cake", as it were. Multiculturalism. I applaud it. Its one of the few good things we've done since the sixties. What's most sad is that the champions of individual freedom should be the first in line to respect the customs and habits of other people. Those "statist totalitarians" are the ones who you'd think be pushing for cultural conformity and "monoculturalism", as is precisely what happened under Stalin. Instead, the freedom fighters demand conformity to the "superior" white and American culture, counter "multiculturalism" only with the most perverse elitism and xenophobia we have seen since the days of McCarthy. So, Krimel, on that note we disagree. I do not think we are "past the hump", its evident to me that elitist nationalism, xenophobia and ridiculous jargoning pandering to the paranoic fears about "statism", "collectivism" (whatever that means), and the big bad boogey of (gasp!) nihilism are what rules the day. I'd wish you prayers that this were behind us would come true, but it'll be a long time before we put this disgusting bullshit behind us. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
