[Chris] This about Chance, Dynamic Quality and the MOQ in general: The way I see it there is no such thing as chance. Only causation that we cannot see because of lack of information.
[Krimel] This sounds like a version of Laplace's demon. If this clever demon were in possession of just the right facts, about every particle in the universe, the past and future would be open to them. Laplace was one of the architects of probability theory. He knew there could be no such demon but this was an expression of hyper-Newtonian thinking. A sci-fi tale based on faith in natural law and liberation from authority. It is a determinism that stamps out chance and sees chaos as the enemy. [Chris] Dynamic Quality does not mean randomness or chaos. Dynamic Quality is not some external force that comes in and effects the patterns like some God. [Krimel] Dynamic means flux and change. Dynamic systems are chaotic systems. I would say that when we blame tragedies on acts of God, we are identifying them as DQ. [Chris] Rather Dynamic Quality is everywhere and in every "thing". [Krimel] Everything from leptons to galaxies is affected by chance. [Chris] It is the motivational force that keeps everything running, since everything strives for higher Quality, the higher Quality perceived as Dynamic Quality and then transformed into static Quality. [Krimel] You are giving descriptions causal powers and agency here. Human beings might perceive and strive for higher Quality. It might be possible to speak of living things optimizing their paths of least resistance. But Quality does not strive and it does not perceive. If all things are drawn toward anything it is entropy. [Chris] Chance or chaos is only very complex patterns that we do not have enough information to observe in a good way, but with the presence of Dynamic Quality that tells us that development is Good we learn more and more - and more and more things that were seen as chance or chaos is now explainable. When something happens as a result of causation - in the MOQ called valuing or something fitting in the MOQ, but still just another word for causation - then DQ is always there to motivate it and provide that Quality perception that can then be transformed into Static Quality. [Krimel] This is just more nice sounding muddled thinking. Chaos can be deterministic and unpredictable at the same time. Even tiny variations in known Qualities can have huge impacts on final outcome. In fact the variations needed to really mess things up can occur on the subatomic level were information is unobtainable. It is not just a matter of not having enough information or keen enough powers of observation. We can always attempt to trace lines of causation after the fact. But we can only make educated wagers on the future. [Chris] The movement of Evolution is a movement towards the perception of pure Quality, and so Dynamic Quality is really this, GLIMPSES OF QUALITY that we because we are no archangel observers and haven't reached that level of evolution yet, can only get glimpses of and then transform it into Static Patterns - evolution. [Krimel] Evolution is adaptation in response to changes in the environment. The positive or negative Quality of the change is relative to the observer. Random rocks falling from the sky can be good for the rats but bad for reptiles. Ice ages are great for polar bears horrible for armadillos. Any random event like a solar flare or a supernova or an asteroid would be an enormously dynamic event that could sterilize the planet. Where is the betterness in that, Archangel? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
