Ron said: I think it's all relative to what offends different people. Where I come from one can talk like a retarded pornographer and not offend, but as soon as you begin to insult their intelligence by belittling comments, the gloves come off. It all depends on your sensibilities and the respect of others sensibilities. If I remember correctly DmB you were quite offended by my words awhile back, I even got an off-list comment telling me so.
dmb says: Yea, but nobody is denying anybody else's right to be offended. And my objections to your use of profanity did not include a refusal to talk or otherwise stop the conversation. Ron: That is true, you are if anything, open to discussion. Dmb: If memory serves you were much more offended by my objections than I was by the profanity. In fact, its been months and you still remember the exact phrase I used to describe that rhetorical style. (retarded pornographer) Ron: Well I have to give credit it's due, that's funny. Make a great Sunday comic. didn't offend me with the off-list but I did take issue with what seemed to me , a call to street- Shit-talk smack down, an area where I do have experience. apparently This wasn't your intent.. What took me off-guard was the prudish Sunday school marm tisk-tisk I got.. so I just asked you to blow-off . Which you did, And that's cool. I have no beef, just no time for finger shaking. Dmb: And, I'd add with emphasis, none of that has anything to do with the kind of rhetoric that offends Matt so profoundly. Yes, I repeatedly accused him of evasion, of failing to co-operate fairly in the conversation, of deleting and dismissing my points. I also complained that this constitutes rude behavior. And what was Matt's response? To bail entirely, which is only a more egregious version of the same evasion. Why is THAT not the issue? I certainly hope nobody thinks that's the way to conduct a quality conversation. Ron: I did say, if he was using it as a tactic then I do side with you. I would have to agree. Dmb: Here is one of my central points. Its been repeated several times and in several ways but was never really addressed by Matt. It comes from the last time I tried, from the post that begged and begged Matt not to ignore it again. As I see it, Matt is being pressured here to confront an issue of substance. This pressure takes the form of a series of complaints. But can you honestly say this is abusive? Can you honestly say the complaints have no merit or substance? Really, what the hell is so bad about this? How does this justify anything like Matt's response? Seriously. If you can convince me that Matt is being reasonable in his refusal, I'll wash your car. Ron: It's dirty as hell from the storms too, see, how can I cheat this... Seriously, I was just calling for some consideration of his side, But from what I know of you, you are not one who takes to issues like this Without a legitimate cause. Dmb: And finally, please try to remember that relevance itself is something we can and should debate. To simply declare something irrelevant is pretty much the same thing as dismissing it. If the other guy thinks otherwise, that it is relevant, and tells you so then such dismissal becomes a very ungenerous and willful ignorance. On top of being intellectually weak, that's just rude. Don't you think? Ron: I just had this sort of impass with Ham, and I think I offended him too. It's a difficult call when two people come to a point in dialog where They do not recognize the others concepts as legitimate on a particular topic. I have no use for cosmogony but it is central to Ham. I respect that. What I said before still holds value. It's not you or your style it's How Matt responds to it. Personally I see no fault with your words. You're passionate about your concepts and a creative dialection. You used a Judo reference, there is another that works well in this Situation. In Judo when you have your opponent in submittal they have The choice to tap out, or continue to struggle against the hold. Matt tapped out. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
