Gad you started this thread Chris, I've tried many times before. I start from the position "Democracy is the worst from of governance, except for all the others." So our (worthwhile) task is to see what "kind of" free-democracy would be an improvement (from a MoQist perspective).
The debate always founders on the social / intellectual "confusion". The general points in your thread with Bo, are clearly true - social patterns must accept some dominance by intellectual paterns , whilst intellectual patterns must recognise that they are supported by social patterns. To be provocative, this boils down to what intellectual (elite) arrangements are valid to control / limit the freedoms of social arrangements. Practically, the answer cannot simply be one individual one vote on every decision that affects every individual - for that case read anarchy instead democracy. Even if social and intellectual patterns are intermixed in one "cultural" level - as I see it - it's the same question of which more-intellectual patterns may limit the freedoms of which more-social patterns. If the answer is "any" - that is all intellectual patterns dominate and control all social patterns, then a VERY clear distinction between social and intellectual patterns becomes essential. Otherwise Platt might pass for intellectual ;-) If the answer is that pragmatically some social institutions must agree and enforce intellctually-based limits, the questions become practical ones of which and how ? And how do we avoid such institutions becoming some embodiment of the Giant ? Not found a better answer yet than a pragmatic cultural & teleological mythology answer so far - but I'm still looking. Freedom is a fundamental part of the answer, but totally unlimited freedom is not the whole answer. Ian On 7/30/08, Christoffer Ivarsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > [Chris] > > > > > Well, I'd start out with the basics. Schooling, Medical care and other > > > basic > > > needs that people have to have fulfilled in order to all have a chance > to > > > develop their intellectual capacity need to be ensured and regulated. > > > These > > > things can of course not be allowed to be subject to the social pattern > > > called the free market. > > > > > > > [Platt] > > I presume you are familiar with Pirsig's comparison of socialism to the > > free market. Also, do you see government regulations as social patterns? > > > > State the specific comparison you have in mind please. > > And as Bodvar pointed out before, the patterns are interrelated and are > pretty much never separated, and so the laws a government makes will be > social patterns, BUT, the social patterns can be formed by intellectual > patterns to best suit the intellectual level. > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
