I don't know If you'll agree with me, but from where I'm sitting it seems
plausible that consciousness the way it is identified (witch is rather
badly) now had to develop from the social level and into the intellectual
level. If we look at the nature of the social level it is in essence the
transcendence of biological values of a collective - and this/these
collective/s did become more then just a bunch of biological patterns
cooperating to gain High Quality Biological rewards - even though that was
also the case: it became something more, something with an agenda of it's
own, and I believe the most important thing that facilitated this was the
development of the consciousness on a larger scale. Because with the forming
of an intricate social patterns each part of this collective had to know it's
specific functions in it, and thus become a whole lot more self-aware.
Individuality can of course only exist if there is such a thing as a
collective that facilitates the creation of it.
I also believe that we can then imagine how the intellectual level started
developing from this point - based as it must be on the social level, and in
particular this self-awareness that the social level provided. Soon enough
the Drive For Knowledge was borne using individuality within the collective
as it's vessel.
Something like that anyway. I'll need to look this over more carefully I
feel. But What do you say?
//Chris
[Arlo begins a new thread]
Platt had, as is typical, derided the arguments made by Krimel (about the
origins of consciousness) as "oops". Since Ham has already indicated his
beliefs to be "poof", but has been wholly unable to articulate any answers
to
these simple questions, I thought that Platt, who also advocates a "Great
Poof"
theory should have a go at them. After three posts of evasion (thread was
under
What is SOM?), I thought I pull this into a new thread to, to give Platt
(or
Ham) a more noticeable forum to consider these questions.
I am also adding to this the question about the evolution of
consciousness. But
first, the thread Platt has (so far) been wholly unable to answer.
Hopefully
his next post to this will be answers to these questions.
[Arlo had asked]
First, I assume you'd agree that at some point in the far, far distant
past,
some pre-pre-primate of man lacked the sophistication in
consciousness/awareness that "man" possesses. If you disagree here, let me
know.
If we accept the above premise, then something had to change, some event
or
something that occurred, some change in something, that can account for
the
appearance of something where it did not exist before. No?
I've been vocal about my view on social participation (an unintended
consequence of neurological evolution) being this "change". Physiologists
may
point to simply the neurobiological changes in themselves that account for
the
appearance of human consciousness. Both of these views you characterize
(slyly)
as "oops". I've argued that these are not "oops" but "aha's!", moments
where
Quality latched onto the unexpected formations that appeared due to
genetic
changes.
So I ask you, Platt, "what changed?" You disavow both physiological and
sociological theories. I know that. So what do you offer instead? The only
thing I could glean from Ham's responses is a sort of Divine Intervention,
a
great "Abracadabra!" or "Poof!" where "on high" (Ham's words) suddenly
poofed
consciousness into existence.
What do you offer instead of these? Although you run from the word, the
only
thing you have ever offered in the past is "Great Poof" a la Ham of some
"Qualigod". Now tell me, if not "oops" or "aha!" or "poof", then what?
[Arlo adds a new question to Platt]
Is it your opinion, along with Ham, that "consciousness" in man has
evolved
over historic time, from "genus to species" (as Ham said), from the
earliest
primates with this consciousness to modern man? Or did "consciousness"
appear
fully-formed and fully-evolved in those early primates?
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