[Arlo] > Would you say, for example, if your cat's are "self-conscious", that this > differs from your "self-consciousness"? How? What's the same? What's > different?
I don't think anyone knows what it's like to be a cat (or a bat). But if my cats are "self-conscious", it's analogous to the self-consciousness of an infant, except that it's not increasing. (Koko was closer to a toddler & improved with each increase in language ability.) The same: They distinguish themselves from other things. Different: They don't worry about immortality, responsibility, etc. [Craig, corrected] > If both cats come at the same time, they each eat from one side. Whenever one > cat comes alone, she eats all of one side & leaves the other side. To me, > this kind of reciprocal behavior is evidence of self-/other- consciousness, > but I don't find it "socially negotiated symbolic activity". [Arlo] > And I don't find it evidence of self-consciousness. Though they are sensitive > to where there biological ends are (they know the couch they are sleeping on > is "not them") neither cat has a concept of "self" as "who am i?" I'm with Ham on this one. Cats that know what's "not them", ipso facto know what IS them. I think the root of our disagreement is that I think self-consciousness is biological. As a paid-up member of the human race, I am part of all levels. For instance, I am a citizen of a country. But my self-consciousness doesn't depend on my being aware that I am a citizen. [Craig, previously] > I think such "Aha!" moments are rare. [Arlo] > As do I. Sorry, I thought your position was that self-consciousness originates in an "Aha!" moment. Craig Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
