Krimel said to gav: I have said that "objective" means intersubjective early and often on this forum. I'm sorry if there was some misunderstanding. But what I have said about it is, that objective reality IS intersubjective reality. That is the only meaning the term can have.
dmb says: Like gav says, these are two very different things. Intersubjective facts are created while objective facts are discovered. That's why I asked about your assumptions concerning an external reality existing independently of our perceptions. An objective reality is discovered rather than constructed. One can maintain a weak, watered-down version of intersubjectivity while still holding onto the assumption of objectivity. In that case, it only refers to the area of agreement about that objective reality. Apparently, you think you're off the hook just because you make no particular claims about the nature of things-in-themselves. But the MOQ goes way beyond this weak form of intersubjectivity. There are no things-in-themselves as such. This is precluded by the radically empirical principle that we can't say anything about what lies beyond our experience. The MOQ would say that experience is the cause and things are the effect rather than the other way around. This does not mean t hat physical objects pop into existence the moment we think of them. It means that "physical objects" are a creation, a meaningful reference to certain kinds of experience. There is experience and analogy upon analogy within our intersubjective world. The "objective reality" is not the basis of this intersubjective agreement. Intersubjectivity is the basis and "objectivity" is an analogy within that larger creation. Or, to be less generous and helpful about it... If you MEAN to say "intersubjective" then you should not SAY "objective", you freakin' weasel! Thanks. dmb _________________________________________________________________ Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gallery_082008 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
