At 05:03 PM 10/19/2008, you wrote:
Marsha,
Here's one reason why I've always had difficulty believing
all static patterns are conceptual. That's why I talk about tiny skull.
The universe is bigger than what's in our head, thereby pointing out
that what is in our head: thoughts, concepts, intellectual static patterns
of value, are not all that we can come up with about this world. Trees
Hi SA,
I thinking the levels are categories of patterns: inorganic,
biological, social and intellectual. My idea is that all patterns
are conceptual, but are referring to something. In the case of
inorganic and biological, these patterns have as their referent
external, natural phenomenon, such as what you are calling trees, or
as I might be calling granite. Social and intellectual patterns are
conceptual patterns pointing to concepts/ideas, such as Socialism and
theoretical mathematics.
Try this. If you strip away all concepts(name, definition,
attributes, etc.(all concepts)) from a tree, what is left? Pure,
direct experience (value, quality).
The value that the static pattern of value represents is not a
tree. A tree is not a thing. It is a process without a name,
boundaries, or a beginning and end. It is for human convenience that
we isolate and assign concepts to processes.
Pure direct experience seems to be the senses and
emotion/feeling. The third value distinct from mental and physical
is the emotion value: fear, beauty, etc.
Static patterns seem to carry a memory of emotions/feelings. This
might be carried as body intelligence. They don't seem to be in the head.
What do you think?
Am I sounding like a nutcase?
Marsha
are here too:
ZMM (Chapter 25):
"This inner peace of mind
occurs on three levels of understanding.
Physical quietness seems the easiest
to achieve, although there are
levels and levels of this too, as attested by
the ability of Hindu
mystics to live buried alive for many days. Mental
quietness, in
which one has no wandering thoughts at all, seems more difficult,
but can be achieved. But value quietness, in which one has no
wandering desires
at all but simply performs the acts of his life
without desire, that seems the
hardest."
woods continues:
I'm particularly noticing that mental or thoughts, concepts are one
way of understanding, at least in accord with this excerpt from ZMM.
Values, including intellectual static pattern of values, are something
distinct from only thoughts or concepts. Thoughts and concepts are
intellectual values, but mental quietness is another value of intellect.
Also, all the other static patterns of value: inorganic, organic,
social, thereby
are not intellectual static pattern of value (spov). These are
values, not mental. Up
above Pirsig is pointing out physical, mental, and a distinct third level of
understanding called value.
woods
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