Marsha, Herewith Wendy Ellyat's article. Regards Ian
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 3:30 PM, MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ian, > > I'm interested in reading the essay by Wendy Ellyat. > > > Marsha > > > > At 08:49 AM 11/23/2008, you wrote: >> >> Strange, I wonder why I hadn't noticed before ... >> Thanks Marsha >> >> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 2:40 PM, MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > At 08:31 AM 11/23/2008, you wrote: >> >> >> >> Has anyone come across this before ? >> > >> > Ian, >> > >> > What? Lila as "divine play"? Divine play, game or dance? Of course! >> > >> > Marsha >> > >> > >> > >> >> Lila = "divine play" - life as a spontaneous game played by >> >> lighthearted forces beyond our understanding. from Sri Aurobindo in >> >> "The Valley of the False Glimme" >> >> >> >> Quoted in an essay on "Inclusionality" by Wendy Ellyat. (I'll dig out >> >> a link or forward a copy if I can't find on-line.) >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Ian >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 1:33 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > Andrè and Steve >> >> > >> >> > On 22.: >> >> > >> >> > Steve: >> >> >> I'm still not seeing what you see >> >> >> as a problem. Maybe it would help me understand your point if you >> >> >> explained what an SOMist is to you. >> >> > >> >> > Gentlemen: SOM and "the S/O distinction" must be kept apart. I know >> >> > it's cumbersome to "dissolve metaphysical disputes..." constantly" >> >> > but >> >> > SOM is the conviction that the s/o split is from eternity to >> >> > eternity. >> >> > i.e. existence's very base, while the distinction is the said split >> >> > as a >> >> > static VALUE (for value it is as Andrè says below) having seen trough >> >> > its bluff as a metaphysics. Knowing that the split will start to >> >> > produce paradoxes if taken metaphysically ...and dissolve if pursued >> >> > "scientifically". >> >> > >> >> > Andre: >> >> >> Good question Steve and let me say first of all that we are in full >> >> >> agreement about most things concerning the MoQ. >> >> > >> >> >> I am also reluctant to call anything above the Intellectual level a >> >> >> 'level' in the same way that Pirsig suggested the term 'code' of >> >> >> which he first says it isn't code and then goes on to use the term >> >> >> 'code of Art' (p167) and repeats this on p 307 (Dynamic-static >> >> >> code). To be honest I was even toying with the idea that the MoQ is >> >> >> not a metaphysics at all (!) but I'd rather leave that to the >> >> >> experts. >> >> > >> >> >> First of all, I do not regard SOM as evil. Absolutely not. This >> >> >> rational, scientific approach has guided mankind to do many great >> >> >> things and prevented us from many a disaster. (mind you, it has >> >> >> caused some as well). Anyway, within the context of the MoQ I see >> >> >> SOM (Intell. PoV) as a potential threat for a number of reasons: >> >> > >> >> >> It has pervaded intellectual patterns to such an extent that it has >> >> >> assumed total ownership of our capacity to intellectualise.Both >> >> >> inductively and deductively. That is, not only how to, but also >> >> >> what's in it. All other influences upon our 'intellectualising' >> >> >> (just to be clear because this word also has connotations, I mean >> >> >> just thinking, our mental capacity [whatever that means..arrrgg]), >> >> >> tend to be reduced to subjective (in the negative of >> >> >> objective/scientific) frills. I am talking about intuition etc. >> >> > >> >> > One minor point. Andrè says that SOM have "pervaded intellectual >> >> > patterns", if this means "pervaded the level" I must blow my whistle. >> >> > In retrospect the 4th. level began as the conviction that there were >> >> > an objective reality (eternal principles) beyond the gods' realm, a >> >> > TRUTH that even transcends the gods. Thus the level began as a >> >> > "som", >> >> > it could not have developed as anything less, only the MOQ >> >> > transformed >> >> > it into ITS OWN 4th. level. >> >> > >> >> > Thus I must point out that "...SOM has pervaded intellectual >> >> > patterns" >> >> > (provided it means the level) is a little misleading, as if people >> >> > of >> >> > old were "intellecualizing" when pondering their social reality, i.e. >> >> > it equalizes thinking and intellect making the latter identical to >> >> > SOM's "mind" - a mental compartment that can be filled with different >> >> > intellectualizations. Phew! Speak about resolving metaphysical >> >> > disputes at the end of each sentence. >> >> > >> >> > Now, I don't think Andrê really lapses back in SOM, so much of the >> >> > above is from pure MOQ premises, but it's the words' old somish load >> >> > that keeps popping up. Also "thinking" is ambiguous, but enough for >> >> > now. >> >> > >> >> > Bodvar >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> It doesn' t recognise quality. It doesn't recognise morals.These >> >> >> sort of dangle at the edges somewhere. >> >> >> >> >> >> Perhaps an example is better: >> >> >> >> >> >> Suppose I have written a great song or poem...and suppose my teacher >> >> >> was a pure SOM'ist (I realise they do not come in that way but for >> >> >> the sake of the example) this person can shoot the song or poem down >> >> >> on the basis of not following the grammar rules properly or >> >> >> (ab)using meaning of different words I have put together in a >> >> >> different way. >> >> >> >> >> >> It reminds me of the film Dead Poet's Society with Robin Williams >> >> >> and the scene where the boys are told to tear the pages from their >> >> >> books defining good poetry, how to analyse good poetry and >> >> >> guidelines on how to write good poetry. He has the pages thrown into >> >> >> the rubbish bin. >> >> >> >> >> >> He then has them go outside and through various physical/mental >> >> >> (experiential) activities has each individual student 'find' >> >> >> himself, to find his own idea of what is good or what is not good. >> >> >> One can liken this process to Phaedrus' teaching methods. >> >> >> >> >> >> Pirsig has created a wonderful MoQ, for me it is a 'Code of Art'. >> >> >> And I don't want to see it shot down. >> >> >> >> >> >> In an earlier post I have reasserted the quality of SOM. It can >> >> >> continue to assist us, it can keep us on the straight and narrow. >> >> >> It's just that the MoQ has redefined this straight and shown that >> >> >> this narrow can be as broad as you like. >> >> >> >> >> >> I hope I have clarified it a bit Steve. I am not anti SOM, I just >> >> >> want to restrain its potential influence a bit over this MoQ. I hope >> >> >> I have done this for some of you, and know I have done this at least >> >> >> for myself. >> >> >> >> >> >> Kind regards >> >> >> Andre >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> >> >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> >> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> >> >> Archives: >> >> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> >> >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> >> > Archives: >> >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> >> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> > >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> >> Archives: >> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > >> > . >> > . >> > The Universe is uncaused, like a net of jewels in which each is a >> > reflection >> > of all the others in a fantastic, interrelated harmony without end. >> > . >> > . >> > >> > >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > . > . > The Universe is uncaused, like a net of jewels in which each is a reflection > of all the others in a fantastic, interrelated harmony without end. > . > . > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >
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