Marsha, beautiful, I am eager to read it. thank you so much.-ron
________________________________ From: MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:13:27 AM Subject: Re: [MD] The Myth of Reason Hi Ron, Okay. When I first read Nagarjuna's MMK, I was dumbstruck. A while after that I read Nietzsche's 'Philosophy in the Tragic Age of the Greeks'. I found similar points being made. If you haven't read it, I bet you will enjoy it. (Actually, Ham pointed me towards this book.) I found an e-version, printed and read it straight through one New Year's Day. Here's a version at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Tragic-Friedrich-Wilhelm-Nietzsche/dp/0895267101?tag=dogpile-20 Marsha At 10:54 AM 12/11/2008, you wrote: >Hello Marsha, >If you are asking for my personal motivation making these statements >I guess I have to say that the abstract meaning of pre-socratic philosophers >were often mis-interpreted. I think we can trace where, how and why >these concepts >emerged and evolved. >I also think that it illustrates the types of discussions that have >been current here on >the forum, Ham takes a traditional rationalist view where as Bo >takes a traditional >materialist view. All of our arguements with them take the shape of expressing >to them the myth of entity. >I feel if we know the basis of our arguements we have a better >chance at demonstrating >why we think this understanding has greater value to someone who >views it as tossing >any kind of meaning out the window. > > > > > >________________________________ >From: MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:14:45 AM >Subject: Re: [MD] The Myth of Reason > > >Ron, > >I think I get this part. > >Marsha > > > > > > > > >At 09:43 AM 12/11/2008, you wrote: > >Hello Marsha, > >Reason and materialism are myths. > > > >The myth of truth overshadowed the myth of excellence. But lets be certain, > > > >"A myth is a sacred narrative in the sense that it holds special > >significance for those who tell it, and it contributes to and > >expresses systems > >of thought and values. Use of the term by scholars implies neither the truth > >nor the falseness of the narrative. To the source culture, > however, a myth by > >definition is "true," in that it embodies beliefs, concepts, and ways of > >questioning and making sense of the world." > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > >From: MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:34:33 AM > >Subject: Re: [MD] The Myth of Reason > > > > > >Hi Ron, > > > >I still don't get where you are coming from. You've gathered > >together a different set of patterns. From reading what you've > >written, there is much left out. It's probably on your mind. Or at > >least, it's not on my mind. This is not really a problem. Read > >recently the journey is the destination. But if you have the > >patience to expand a little more, I might get it and you might go > >deeper. It's up to you. You obviously have given this a lot of > >consideration. But maybe I'm so charmed by these translucent > >patterns, that for me this is not the time for logic. > > > >I wanted to you to know I am interested. > > > > > >Marsha > > > > > > > >At 09:09 AM 12/11/2008, you wrote: > > >Hello Marsha, > > >It is of my opinion "IS" has the place of defining the concept of entity. > > >I've thought long and hard about "entity", Plato called it form, > > >Heraticlus Logos. The common understanding we share, as a culture > > >and as human patterns. > > > > > >Whats really interesting is how I see the modern western struggle of > > >materialism and rationalism > > >really representing the difference in defining entity in the way > > >that Plato and Aristotle > > >commonly represent. Material form vs rational form that both rest on > > >the concept of > > >entity-ship as what "is". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > >From: MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:24:58 AM > > >Subject: Re: [MD] The Myth of Reason > > > > > > > > > > > >Greetings Ron, > > > > > >I've read your essay, but I did not understand what exactly you were > > >getting at. And this post, too, leaves me puzzled. I'm in the > > >pattern mode of exploration, and maybe that's inhibiting my > > >understanding. From your title, I do think I agree with you. I have > > >settled on inductive and deductive logic as useful tools. Not sure > > >about 'is'. Is it somehow like the scalpel in carving up reality? > > > > > >Marsha > > > > > > > > > > > >At 03:53 PM 12/9/2008, you wrote: > > > >To all, > > > >In my essay "the function of form" I trace the origins of SOM > > > >To the Hebrew word "is" and how it effected Greek thought. > > > >In it I state that Parmenides concluded that "is" or being or > > > >awareness, always was. That logos, the common understanding, > > > >the abstract, always existed. > > > >Plato argued that logos was form. Aristotle maintained that it > > > >was the arguement from the particular experience to a universal > > > >understanding. > > > >Logos is the root word of logic. Logos in christianity was made flesh > > > >and worshiped as God. > > > >Parmenides maintained that the only way to realize truth was through > > > >abstract thought, through reason. > > > >Logos is the pivotal Greek ideal that wrought SOM. > > > >The worship of logic as God > > > > > > > >Heraclitus popularized the word and as I believe was often > misunderstood. > > > >Heraclitus proclaimed that the world was constatnly in flux and that > > > >only through > > > >the abstract universal understanding of things may any sort of order > > > >be derived. > > > >He stated: > > > >"all things come to pass in accordance with this word" and "the word > > > >is common." > > > >It is "the account which governs the universe (ta hola, the whole)." > > > > > > > > > >. > > >. > > > > > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the > stars.......... > > >. > > >. > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > >Archives: > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > >Archives: > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > >. > >. > > > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.......... > >. > >. > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >Archives: > >http://lists..moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >Archives: > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >. >. > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... >. >. > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo..cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . . Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... . . 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