Bo, Its not that your topic is odd or even novel. Its your circularity that has us going on round in dead ends.
I am sure that you know you can take logic only as far the premises you base your argumentation on will take you. You may draw your conclusions, but we question your premises and all premises all the way to the original premise. Logic only works for a certain set of conditions and if you chose not to venture beyond these conditions, you would not open yourself to the possibilities that may offer themselves. For my part I like to draw insight from non-logic and non-sense. You should try it some day. Khoo On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:38 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > At 03:29 AM 1/9/2009, you wrote: > >> Marsha, Platt and MD >> >> Jan. 8 >> >> Marsha exclaimed something I guess is exasperation over my >> raising such an odd topic, but I like to draw conclusions from >> premises. You should try it some day. >> > > Bo, > > I rise magnanimously above such childish remarks. > > > Marsha > > > > > > > > Platt wrote: >> >> > It has always been of interest to me that people here and elsewhere who >> > claim to be atheists invariably invoke the teachings of Jesus when asked >> > to describe the basis for their moral guidance. Whether it's extolling >> > the goodness of being my brother's keeper or making love not war, >> > invariably Christian moral principles are imputed by atheist >> > intellectuals. Some radical leftists have even gone so far as to claim a >> > Marxist government would be a an expression of Christian ideals. >> >> Yes, the Bible was so long our frame of reference that it became >> ingrained. Even if "enlightened" I find it a loss that it no longer is >> generally known, there are so many to-the-point phrases there. For >> instance "Give unto Caesar what Caesar's is" that I forgot in my >> opening post, indicating Jesus' budding intellectual leaning, what >> we now know as the secular/religious dichotomy. The lack of what >> is Islam's curse. >> >> > All of which raises the question: Is Christian morality also an >> > intellectual level morality? >> >> Yes, there are definitely moral aspects that are Christian and >> intellect-influence, in general the human worth and rights which so >> dominate it, but the term "moral" is still synonymous with the Fall >> Myth about good and bad entering existence. What is good and >> what is bad is the Ten Commandments on to which countless >> additions has been added, particularly in Judaism and Islam (if >> Islam has something like the commandments??) at least the Tora >> and Koran are choke full of rules and regulations. >> >> Then Christendom. My knowledge is not great, but the Greek >> influence began with Constantine making it a "state religion" (that >> was the first secularizing) and Aristotle becoming a Church Father. >> A major shift took place when the S/O offshoot Soul/Body entered >> and drove a wedge between Christendom and it's Semitic roots. >> This dichotomy is not known in Judaism and Islam something that >> demonstrates their pre- or non-S/O quality. But is was not until the >> said Renaissance and enlightenment that it really took off. >> >> But still Christendom is still a peculiar mix, how liberal many >> clegypersons are and accepting the scientific explanation of most >> aspects of life, also that Jesus was conceived normally by Joseph >> and merely a "good person", morals is still a religious matter; good >> and bad must have some divine reference, hence the Old >> Testamentists. And I guess the latter not grasping the there can be >> highly moral cultures - the Chinese f.ex. - without any it having a >> divine guarantor. >> >> > That a Christian-suffused group of Founding Fathers in the U.S. >> > established the MOQ-cited intellectual level guarantees of freedom of >> > speech, freedom of religion, trail by jury, etc. would suggest a "yes" >> > answer. >> >> Definitely. For the Founding Fatheres FF) these rights and >> freedoms were what they saw as the highest divine message (I >> guess there weren't atheists in late sixteenth century). So this is >> the point: We see that something greater than religion picks the >> parts of holy texts that fits its purpose, the Bible surely has parts >> that supports despotism, but this greater something made the FF >> focus on the parts that support human worth and rights. And the >> MOQ reveals what's at work behind the scene. >> >> Bo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > > . > . > Albert Einstein: "Although I am a typical loner in daily life, my > consciousness of belonging to the invisible community of those who strive > for truth, beauty and justice has preserved me from feeling isolated." > . > . > . > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > -- [email protected] 6016-301 4079 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
