Dear Chris I have reasons for believing that a strictly physical explanation of a performed action by an individual is possible. They start with Kant's assertion that Quality is an a priori synthetic judgment and a characteristic of mind just like time and space. They continue with the realization that mind is not mental but rather physical, biological, entity and therefore, intentionality can be explained by the laws of physics. But the whole explanation cannot be done quickly so I'll leave it here and get back to it as its own topic in future. -david swift
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: January 12, 2009 5:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Moq_Discuss Digest, Vol 38, Issue 56 Send Moq_Discuss mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Moq_Discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Quick one: causation (Krimel) 2. Re: Quick one: causation (Krimel) 3. Re: on free market (Woods Woods) 4. Re: on free market (Woods Woods) 5. Re: Quick one: causation ([email protected]) 6. Re: David Hildebrand's Dewey (david buchanan) 7. Re: on free market (Khaled Alkotob) 8. Re: on free market (Woods Woods) 9. Re: Quick one: causation (Platt Holden) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:03:53 -0500 From: "Krimel" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] Quick one: causation To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <017a350c6e9a444f85fffcf9cea18...@hplaptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [Ham] Unless you deny "free will" on the ground that all behavior is genetically-programmed or socially-induced, the primary cause of voluntarily actions is the intended purpose of the individual who performs them. [Krimel] Such an ironic post from one who in his online term paper holds to something like Calvinist predestination. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:06:03 -0500 From: "Krimel" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] Quick one: causation To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <25cfb736a80244729fe6c8b4c0662...@hplaptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > [Chris] > Allright, answer me this, just quickly - why can't the explanation of a > performed action > by an individual be explained only in terms of physical causation? [Platt] "There is always this open end of Dynamic indeterminacy." (Lila, 11) [Krimel] So what you and Pirsig are saying here is, "Ooops"? ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:30:55 -0800 (PST) From: Woods Woods <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] on free market To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Khaled: The unfortunate part is that big corporation end up being on corporate welfare form the government 60 minutes had a great story last night about oil price, and how in one day, the price of a barrel of oil went up $25 at a time when supply was high and demand was low. one of the lines from the report last nigh was that for every barrel of oil that get consumed, 27 barrels get traded. That means a barrel of oil goes through 27 hands before the consumer pays the price. So in a society that produces nothing these days, the only money being produced is through interest, hedge funds and ponzie schemes. Gas goes to $$4.50 a gallon, because morgan stanly and bear sterns are 'playing' the market so they can pay my 401k. don't get me wrong, a free market is still the best model to encourage competition, control supply and demand and so on. the unfortunate part is that in the end it becomes corporate socialism woods: ....and what you pointed out is partly why it's not a free market. woods ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:49:07 -0800 (PST) From: Woods Woods <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] on free market To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 "What has always made the state a hell on earth has been precisely that man has tried to make it his heaven." United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303 Speaker-Rep. James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House: ?Mr. Speaker, we are here now in chapter 11.. Members of Congress are official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any Bankrupt entity in World history, the U.S. Government. We are setting forth hopefully, a blueprint for our future. There are some who say it is a coroner?s report that will lead to our demise. It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 ? Joint Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only. The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers. With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955 reads in part: ?The U.S.. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing the United States.? pro-moral liberty, woods ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:39:14 +0000 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] Quick one: causation To: [email protected] Message-ID: <011220092139.27393.496bb8820006dbff00006b0122073007930d9d0a09070e9...@comca st.net> [ian] > The reductionism question... > I'm rambling. Ian, This is the first post of yours that I would say is unintelligible to a native speaker of English. (Are you trying to flunk Chris out of college?) There's gold in there, but it would take an alchemist to extract it. IMHO Craig ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:06:16 -0700 From: david buchanan <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] David Hildebrand's Dewey To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Hey mel, I was at the downtown store last time but I visit both of them. The Colfax store has free parking whereas it cost me $14 to park downtown. (Eight dollars an hour! Ouch. I think parking lot owners must get rich pretty quick.) By the way, local guy, I'm sorry I haven't yet made arrangements to meet you for a beer. Don't take it personally. There are good friends I haven't seen in many moons. You know, because being a husband, dad and student tends to eat up all my time. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howi tworks_012009 ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:08:47 -0800 From: Khaled Alkotob <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] on free market To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > woods: > ....and what you pointed out is partly why it's not a free market. > You are given the impression of free choice, but as the old Tennessee ford song says: "I owe my soul to the company store". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen_Tons according to the WSJ, the average American pays $200 between, phone, cable, cell and Internet. that's $2400 after taxes. then you have house and auto and the list go on. Like hamsters on the little wheel. I do not know if a cultural revolution is on the horizon or not. When people will say enough is enough, I want off this merry go round. I think hell is a Checkout line at costco that never moves. Nah, make that Wal-mart. Khaled ____________________________________________________________ Get matched to top-rated Plumbers in your area! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw4DnEqXw2GKcQrqt6dM9cGgmY2o hcU56BY1GyjVZ6GfvPomg/ ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:36:14 -0800 (PST) From: Woods Woods <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] on free market To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > woods previously: > ....and what you pointed out is partly why it's not a free market. > Khaled: You are given the impression of free choice, but as the old Tennessee ford song says: "I owe my soul to the company store". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen_Tons according to the WSJ, the average American pays $200 between, phone, cable, cell and Internet. that's $2400 after taxes. then you have house and auto and the list go on. Like hamsters on the little wheel. I do not know if a cultural revolution is on the horizon or not. When people will say enough is enough, I want off this merry go round. I think hell is a Checkout line at costco that never moves. Nah, make that Wal-mart. woods: Good points, but your bringing up the fiat monetary system and corporatism that has been interfered with by government in a way that has unfortunately enacted a picture that when i look at statism i see the economy way too much and that is by no sense of the word a free market. You seem to be agreeing with me. Leave Betty's potatoes alone. woods ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:57:03 -0500 From: "Platt Holden" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] Quick one: causation To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > [Chris] > > Allright, answer me this, just quickly - why can't the explanation of a > > performed action > > by an individual be explained only in terms of physical causation? > > [Platt] > "There is always this open end of Dynamic indeterminacy." (Lila, 11) > > [Krimel] > So what you and Pirsig are saying here is, "Ooops"? "Ooops" means evolutionary changes occur without purpose. "Dynamic indeterminacy" means evolutionary changes occur in response to something better, i.e., towards the "fittest." The difference is well spelled out in Chapter 11 of Lila which we all know you summarily reject. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Moq_Discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org End of Moq_Discuss Digest, Vol 38, Issue 56 ******************************************* Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
