Hi Platt --
[Ham, previously]:
You can only speculate on what your cat or another human being
realizes. But there can be no doubt as to what you as your own
subject realizes. Are we at least in agreement on this? If not,
how do you define "realization"?
[Platt]:
"Realization" equals awareness equals experience. Yes, we
agree that I'm aware of being aware -- if I stop to think (SOL)
about it. I doubt if UTOE is similarly aware of being aware, however.
I assume you accept awareness of being-aware as the equivalent of
self-awareness.
In that case, awareness is not something you have to "stop and think about".
Pre-intellectually (prior to any reflection) you, yourself, are the knower
of your
experience. Is that not true?
[Ham]:
Assuming your analysis of the MoQ's "subject" is correct,
you have "patterns of value" chasing after value.
[Platt]:
Not chasing, interacting.
[Ham]:
A value (or pattern of values) has no need to interact
with what it already is.
[Platt]:
"Need" is a value. The "interaction" is a value. Value "is."
So, according to your ontology, there is no reality but Value. Everything
equates to it; that is to say, Value = Self = Experience = Realization. All
distinctions are patterns created by Intellect which is a higher (Dynamic)
level of Value. Does that correctly state your MOQ worldview?
[Ham]:
This throws Michael's concept of the subject
"seeking transcendence" flat on its face.
[It also ignores subjective desire, motivation, individual initiative,
inspiration, aesthetic appreciation, and a host of other psycho-emotional
sensibilities that you earnestly believe in.]
[Platt]:
How so? There are high values and low values.
To some transcendence is a high value.
But doesn't the "level" or "pattern" of value ultimately equate to Value
itself? The reality you have outlined IS Value, and ONLY Value. Patterns
and levels are but intellectual reductions (illusory divisions) of the
aggregate Value, are they not? Isn't this how the MoQ "overcomes" SOM?
[Platt]:
Sensibility is sense-of-value. UTOE has it, a cockroach
has it, an atom has it.
Motivation towards higher value (betterness) is built into the
universe, as represented in all creatures (value patterns)
great and small. It's the answer to, "Why survive?"
The "power of knowing or realizing" is plain old "experience."
Intellect is based on the value of the subject/object division
which in turn is the basis of reason, logic, science. Beyond
intellect is the wordless understanding that experience and
value are inseparable.
In your (MoQ) view of existence, patterning (i.e. differentiation) is the
only creation, and even that is illusory. You do not allow for a Creator,
and there is no teleological purpose for existence. With all due respect,
Platt, the reality you have described amounts to little more than something
called Value having a dream about being differentiated. Were I a religious
man, I would find this worldview a pathetic substitute for theism. As a
philosophy, it lacks substance, meaning, and metaphysical insight.
Thank you for your explanation. (I'm almost sorry now that I asked for it.)
Best regards,
Ham
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