I agree, in fact it was this part of the paper which pertained to our conversation about the origin of subjects and objects. " By showing that emotions and values inform our perceptions and cognition, Pirsig confronts a basic assumption of our culture. This assumption or prejudice is a ground from which we experience the world, a standing point we assume and from which we adopt our various postures and attitudes. The standing points are fundamental to our ways of seeing, for, like the men in Plato's cave, where we stand strongly influences what we are able to perceive. We may call the various standing points from which we formulate our views "places" from which we think and view the world, the loci which allow us to see certain things and overlook others. [i][4] In Michael Polanyi's terms, these places are the points we think from, and from which we think about other things" (Polanyi 9). The places structure what Pirsig calls our "preintellectual awareness." By attending to the places of our perception, Pirsig illustrates his attempt, not to cut any new channels of consciousness but simply dig deeper into old ones that have become silted with the debris of thought gone stale and platitudes too often repeated" (Pirsig 8). The places we adopt, like our emotions and values, are "modes of persuasion" of which we are often not aware; and like the men in Plato's cave, we must become aware of our limitations if we are to achieve a new way of seeing. Following Aristotle, we may construe the places which organize our emotional commitments as various interrelated terms."' The specific terms we employ, such as "subject" and object," are taken from delimited realms, while the interrelationships between the terms, which may be independent of any specific contexts, include various modes of identification, opposition or inter-relation. Aristotle sketches in the Categories four modes in which terms may be opposed, such as contraries and as correlatives. Contrary terms like "black" and "white" label things for which the existence of one generally precludes the existence of the other; correlative terms, such as "husband" and "wife," label objects for which the existence of one requires the existence of the other (Aristotle, Categories 31-8). Pirsig emphasizes the importance of our choice of terms and our facility in interrelating them, formulating the operation as the use of a "knife" which slices up and connects our experiences of the world. This knife is "an intellectual scalpel so swift and so sharp you sometimes don't see it moving. You get the illusion that all these parts are just there and are being named as they exist. But they can be named quite differently and organized quite differently depending on how the knife moves" (Pirsig 72). One of Pirsig's tasks, as Chautauqua orator, is to reveal which terms are fundamental in shaping our way of seeing, disclosing their interrelationships, and then demonstrating that they may be interrelated in another manner. By becoming aware of how our commonplaces have led us into our crisis of Reason, we may begin to see their limitations; and, by altering the places, we may potentially disclose a new way of perceiving and functioning in the crisis. The specific terms Pirsig focuses on are those of "subjectivity" and "objectivity." Our culturally ingrained commonplace is that subjects are contrary to objects; that as feeling beings we are necessarily separated from the world of objective things; that, in Lawrence Rosenfield's phrase, "external and internal reality" are distinct" (Rosenfield 69). Our feelings are seen as private and inward, ultimately incommunicable, and effectively distortions of objective perception. This separation lies at the basis of the dualism of our "two cultures," and of our "dissociation of sensibility." All feeling is taken as irrelevant to understanding the world, and only technological, analytic reason is applicable to controlling the environment. Hence reason is narrowed to logical consistency, and technology, the product of that reason, is depleted of all human values. Technological ugliness is thus not the source of personal fragmentation and alienation; it is correlative with it.
________________________________ [i][4] Aristotle distinguishes two dimensions of the "places," the eidai or specific aspect of the places, and the koinoi topoi or common aspect of the places. The former are specific terms in a context, "derived from the propositions relative to a particular species or class of things"; the commonplaces are applicable "to a large number of inquiries of diverse sorts." The Rhetoric of Aristotle, trans., Lane Cooper (New York: D. Appleton, 1932), 1358a 17; 1358a 13-14." I also thought it pertained to your views on scientists and shamans but hey, I am what you make me to be , ... I'm just another lila. ________________________________ From: MarshaV <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:36:44 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: There is no Metaphysics of Quality or no hierarchical levels of patterns in ZMM. I love you too Ron. At 03:26 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: >better yet, forget it. > >I love you Marsha > > >bye! > > > >________________________________ >From: MarshaV <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:20:34 PM >Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: > > >Ron, > >Where does it pertain to the conversation we were having? I was >defending that patterns in the Intellectual Level were all of the >subject/object variety. So gosh my foot... > > >Marsha > > >At 03:13 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: > >gosh, > >I just thought it pertained to the conversation we were having, > >I thought Bo might dig it too since it focused on ZMM in > >particular. > >I just thought it was a good paper to read. > >I urged Bo to read it because it was researched > >and cited references for their assertions an element > >he could stand some brushing up on. > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > >From: MarshaV <[email protected]> > >To: [email protected] > >Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:41:37 PM > >Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: > > > > > >Ron, > > > >Why have you specifically highlighted the need for me to read this > >paper? I really want to know! You didn't offer it for general > >reading, you offered it to Bo and me. Please explain! > > > >What is it in this paper, which portion, is suppose to educate me > >into the correct MOQ perspective? Where have I gone wrong? What > >will correct my misguided point-of-view? > > > > > >Marsha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At 02:29 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: > > >I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I > > >thought the paper > > >was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling > > to the author > > >is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have > > >luck but well > > >worth the read. > > >-Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > >From: MarshaV <[email protected]> > > >To: [email protected] > > >Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:52:59 PM > > >Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: > > > > > > > > >Sure Ron, > > > > > >I will read it, but who is the author? > > > > > > > > >Marsha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: > > > >A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. > > > > > > > >http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > >_____________ > > > > > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the > stars......... > > >. > > >. > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > >Archives: > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > >Archives: > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > >. > >_____________ > > > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... > >. > >. > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >Archives: > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >Archives: > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >. >_____________ > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... >. >. > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _____________ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... . . 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