Ron,
A very interesting article, thank you for sharing it.
Marsha
At 03:50 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote:
I agree, in fact it was this part of the paper which pertained to our
conversation about the origin of subjects and objects.
"
By showing that emotions and values inform our perceptions and
cognition, Pirsig confronts a basic assumption of our culture. This
assumption or prejudice is a ground from which we experience the
world, a standing point we assume and from which we adopt our
various postures and attitudes. The standing points are fundamental
to our ways of seeing, for, like the men in Plato's cave, where we
stand strongly influences what we are able to perceive. We may call
the various standing points from which we formulate our views
"places" from which we think and view the world, the loci which
allow us to see certain things and overlook others. [i][4] In
Michael Polanyi's terms, these places are the points we think from,
and from which we think about other things" (Polanyi 9). The places
structure what Pirsig calls our "preintellectual awareness." By
attending to the places of our perception, Pirsig illustrates his
attempt, not to cut any new channels of consciousness
but simply dig deeper into old ones that have become silted with
the debris of thought gone stale and platitudes too often repeated"
(Pirsig 8). The places we adopt, like our emotions and values, are
"modes of persuasion" of which we are often not aware; and like the
men in Plato's cave, we must become aware of our limitations if we
are to achieve a new way of seeing.
Following Aristotle, we may construe the places which organize our
emotional commitments as various interrelated terms."' The specific
terms we employ, such as "subject" and object," are taken from
delimited realms, while the interrelationships between the terms,
which may be independent of any specific contexts, include various
modes of identification, opposition or inter-relation. Aristotle
sketches in the Categories four modes in which terms may be opposed,
such as contraries and as correlatives. Contrary terms like "black"
and "white" label things for which the existence of one generally
precludes the existence of the other; correlative terms, such as
"husband" and "wife," label objects for which the existence of one
requires the existence of the other (Aristotle, Categories 31-8).
Pirsig emphasizes the importance of our choice of terms and our
facility in interrelating them, formulating the operation as the use
of a "knife" which slices up and
connects our experiences of the world. This knife is "an
intellectual scalpel so swift and so sharp you sometimes don't see
it moving. You get the illusion that all these parts are just there
and are being named as they exist. But they can be named quite
differently and organized quite differently depending on how the
knife moves" (Pirsig 72). One of Pirsig's tasks, as Chautauqua
orator, is to reveal which terms are fundamental in shaping our way
of seeing, disclosing their interrelationships, and then
demonstrating that they may be interrelated in another manner. By
becoming aware of how our commonplaces have led us into our crisis
of Reason, we may begin to see their limitations; and, by altering
the places, we may potentially disclose a new way of perceiving and
functioning in the crisis.
The specific terms Pirsig focuses on are those of "subjectivity" and
"objectivity." Our culturally ingrained commonplace is that subjects
are contrary to objects; that as feeling beings we are necessarily
separated from the world of objective things; that, in Lawrence
Rosenfield's phrase, "external and internal reality" are distinct"
(Rosenfield 69). Our feelings are seen as private and inward,
ultimately incommunicable, and effectively distortions of objective
perception. This separation lies at the basis of the dualism of our
"two cultures," and of our "dissociation of sensibility." All
feeling is taken as irrelevant to understanding the world, and only
technological, analytic reason is applicable to controlling the
environment. Hence reason is narrowed to logical consistency, and
technology, the product of that reason, is depleted of all human
values. Technological ugliness is thus not the source of personal
fragmentation and alienation; it is
correlative with it.
________________________________
[i][4] Aristotle distinguishes two dimensions of the "places," the
eidai or specific aspect of the places, and the koinoi topoi or
common aspect of the places. The former are specific terms in a
context, "derived from the propositions relative to a particular
species or class of things"; the commonplaces are applicable "to a
large number of inquiries of diverse sorts." The Rhetoric of
Aristotle, trans., Lane Cooper (New York: D. Appleton, 1932), 1358a
17; 1358a 13-14."
I also thought it pertained to your views on scientists and shamans
but hey, I am what you make me to be , ... I'm just another lila.
________________________________
From: MarshaV <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:36:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
There is no Metaphysics of Quality or no hierarchical levels of
patterns in ZMM.
I love you too Ron.
At 03:26 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote:
>better yet, forget it.
>
>I love you Marsha
>
>
>bye!
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: MarshaV <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:20:34 PM
>Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
>
>
>Ron,
>
>Where does it pertain to the conversation we were having? I was
>defending that patterns in the Intellectual Level were all of the
>subject/object variety. So gosh my foot...
>
>
>Marsha
>
>
>At 03:13 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote:
> >gosh,
> >I just thought it pertained to the conversation we were having,
> >I thought Bo might dig it too since it focused on ZMM in
> >particular.
> >I just thought it was a good paper to read.
> >I urged Bo to read it because it was researched
> >and cited references for their assertions an element
> >he could stand some brushing up on.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >From: MarshaV <[email protected]>
> >To: [email protected]
> >Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:41:37 PM
> >Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
> >
> >
> >Ron,
> >
> >Why have you specifically highlighted the need for me to read this
> >paper? I really want to know! You didn't offer it for general
> >reading, you offered it to Bo and me. Please explain!
> >
> >What is it in this paper, which portion, is suppose to educate me
> >into the correct MOQ perspective? Where have I gone wrong? What
> >will correct my misguided point-of-view?
> >
> >
> >Marsha
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 02:29 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote:
> > >I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I
> > >thought the paper
> > >was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling
> > to the author
> > >is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have
> > >luck but well
> > >worth the read.
> > >-Ron
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >________________________________
> > >From: MarshaV <[email protected]>
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:52:59 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
> > >
> > >
> > >Sure Ron,
> > >
> > >I will read it, but who is the author?
> > >
> > >
> > >Marsha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote:
> > > >A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo.
> > > >
> > > >http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >.
> > >_____________
> > >
> > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the
> stars.........
> > >.
> > >.
> > >
> > >Moq_Discuss mailing list
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >.
> >_____________
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stars.........
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>.
>_____________
>
>Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
>.
>.
>
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