Dmb to Andre: I mean, your question is really quite huge, I think. Andre: Hi dmb and John. So do I David and thank you once again for your encouragement but I find it very unsatisfactory to hear that 'Plato's denigration of the feminine was due to repression of his own sexuality or of a crystalization of what was already happening on a large scale' .
He was a philosopher for goodness sake! But, in Pirsig's words ' Getting drunk and picking up bar-ladies or perhaps boys and writing metaphysics is a part of life'. So, to let your preference for boys instead of bar-ladies dictate your philosophy is hardly an excuse for undermining a solid case for 'good' and even if your preference is for bar-ladies...why let this influence your philosophy? Was it a period of the biological PoV's being so enmeshed with social POV's that the former was still dominant... i.e the (struggling) mental/ social PoV dominated by the biological/sexual PoV? This hardly seems possible since Pirsig suggests that it is within this time-span intellect at last freed itself from society. ( to be clear Pirsig argues this. I am not convinced that this [clear] break has taken place ...yet... hence my apprehension). Is Pirsig correct about his analysis? (Personally I suggest not) dmb: You could say intellect was born in this context, when mastery and control were the dominant cultural values. Andre: And this is what I am questioning David...mastery and control of whom? Was it mastery of social 'over' biological? To slightly recap: ethical and normative social dilemmas could be resolved by referring to the answers given by the philosophers inspired by the results into investigations into the natural sciences. These answers were empirically verifiable, repeatable, constant etc etc. in other words: solid ground! but there remained the problem of the immediate confrontation with the undifferentiated aesthetic continuum, the experience of everyday living. Plato has shown that he was sensitive to this influence, this part of reality. Was he confused about his own reaction to DQ? Of course we can only surmise, but, given the cultural cristalisation to which you are referring, could it be possible that Plato followed SQ, that which was safe (socially) [an immoral stance for a philosopher!!] thereby denying the DQ (female) principle because HE felt uncomfortable with this part of reality? ( I am not suggesting that all of DQ is female, I am only trying to make my point within this context). Ayaya, I am not satisfied with my own analysis of this. David, do tell me that Westren civilisation was not left in this mess due to the frailty and weakness of one old man?! It is a huge question and yet a simple one: the East embraced it, the West didn't...WHY? Perhaps the question is unfair, I do not know. I still find it intriguing. Regards Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
