> Ron: > > Nick, > > You use the terms "Justice" and "liberty" > > as though they stand for objective universal truths. > > MoQ rejects objective universal views. > Nick previously: > What do you mean by "objective"? They are subjective > cause people are to be willing to minimize conflict. That's > what the NAP is all about. They are moral values. I said that > in a previous post. Natural rights are conflated moral values > due to their universal ability to be applied. But values none-the- > less that can be discarded, thrown away, and people can ignore > liberty and justice if they want to. Criminals (not you or anybody) > prove liberty and justice are not objective, if by objective you > mean unchangeability or utopian. I haven't used objective in a > long time. Is that what it means? I can't remember. > > Ron: > I mean that to assume that unbias opinions exist.
Nick: I never said unbiased opinions don't exist. Liberty is dynamic. It is not my opinion, though I have an opinion on what liberty is. Liberty is everywhere. That's why it's a universal natural right. It's not confined to my opinion. It's an opinion that's age old and is constantly applied. I mean liberty means the absence of initiating physical coercion. I see that most of my life in direct experience. Ron: > That law is inherent in nature > obvious to anyone. Nick: It doesn't have to be obvious. Criminals exist. just saying criminals cause they are the only violators of liberty according to the natural law of human nature. Ron: > Nature is everchanging which means that natural > law is everchanging Nick: Show me how how liberty is a crime? Show me how initiating physical coercion is justice. Give me an example. Ron: > the expereincer is part of experience, everchanging. > If ideas of"Justice" and "Liberty" are everchanging they are > universally meaningless. Nick: They would be. But they aren't everchanging. People's perception of what these concepts mean change, but the concepts themselves are defined. A flower is still a flower. Ron: > They are culturally derived ideals based on the idea of the > existence of an objective truth in nature. Nick: Nope. They are moral values. -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
