At 02:21 PM 7/7/2009, you wrote:
Krimel said:
I would say we tend to "value" meaning or the reduction of
uncertainty. Uncertainty is our constant dark companion. We dread it
and fight it with the very fiber of our being. ... Uncertainty is
THE philosophically significant realization of the past century.
Information Theory defines "meaning" as reduction in uncertainty. I
think it is a good definition and can be applied to almost any use of the term.
Marsha replied:
I totally disagree with this statement, and wonder how you think to
generalize with the "We". I simply do not understand how you come
to this conclusion.
dmb says:
John Dewey saw the desire for uncertainty as more than just
analogous to the organism desire for safety. In that sense, the
desires for safety and certainty are normal desires but they can
both get out of hand. Since science and technology are all about
prediction and control, our culture is lusts after certainty in a
pretty big way. Absolutists philosophies, determinist philosophies,
the hard sciences as well as fundamentalist religions and
conservative politics serve the needs of those who extremely fond of
certainty. While a certain level of stability is essential, I think
the desire for certainty almost always comes with a unhealthy
rigidity. It's not too much of an exaggeration to say it marks a
certain kind of neurosis and I think this is one of the kind of
desire that causes as much suffering as any desire. You know, in the
Buddhist sense of suffering.
I don't thing reduction in uncertainty defines "meaning" at all. It
only defines certainty, which can be pretty meaningless when it is
obtained for neurotic reasons and those reasons are very, very
common among those who seek it. The deprivation theory of religion,
for example, asserts this idea with respect to faith. Psychologist
have found very convincing correlations between sensitivity to fear
and conservative political attitudes. And who doesn't know a guy who
studied math or engineering because he was attracted to their
clarity and precision? Pagel's "experience of powerlessness" and
the idea that "prayer makes us feel like we can influence the divine
will", that we can "have some power" would be another example of
this same desire. Again, this is normal but it can lead us to
believe in all sorts of unbelievable things or to cling too tightly
to the things we believe. I think this is what Pirsig means by
"value rigidity", which can blind a guy to the obvious.
Isn't it more reasonable to let go and just learn to live with some
degree of uncertainty, especially in those areas that are not given
to mathematical formulations and such? I think that's certain.
Marsha:
What seems more insane than trying to find certainty in a flow of
life that is constant change? What could cause more stress than to
try to dash around attempting to make all uncertainties certain? I
think you are correct about suffering. What could radiate more
suffering but such an impossible task? That's why I think the
mystical side of the MoQ has so much to offer. Choices can be made
with quality in mind, without the search for non-existent
certainty. But the world is made of individuals that express all
sorts of patterns. I can accept someone's fear of uncertainty, but
not their attributing it to all individuals at all times. It just
ain't so...
"Compassion diminishes fright about your own pain and increases inner
strength." ~His Holiness, the Dalai Lama
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