Ron, Lot's to agree with your post. Yes, there were some strong individuals challenging social norms among the hippies. But, as Pirsig points out, their solutions were mostly misguided. Nor is today's trend toward more authoritarian government the answer. That's just more reactionary 19th century socialism. And we know what Pirsig had to say about that DQ-smothering intellectual dud.
The struggle for a proper balance between freedom and order goes on. Thanks, Platt On 10 Jul 2009 at 6:32, X Acto wrote: > Platt, > I think Pirsig isn't so much saying that modern society is "no good" just > that > it's still in the throes of the intellectual/social struggle. Both are > rudderless > and are tending toward extremes in their battle (your war with Arlo > illustrates > this superbly) America, as New York in his Quote in Lila is allways looking > like > it's going to hell. Caught between social level victorian paralysis and > intellectual > level relativism paralysis. But it has to be open to degeneracy to remain > dynamic. > > This means that "strong individuals" include degenerates, the zuni looked > like a degenerate > but it took the tribe to see his value, it took being open to dynamic quality > to see good > in his drunken window peeping telling the authorites they could piss off. > When "hippie" individuals do this they are also strong individuals > challenging social norms. > You must realize this also. > > I think the media is running low on republican punching bags, plus her > busting of the local > Gov "old boys club" is coming back to haunt her, she is wise enough to > realize the grid lock > of her lame duck situation and is stepping down to out manuever these tactics. > > Thanks > -Ron > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 8:58:46 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] Reductionism > > On 10 Jul 2009 at 4:11, John Carl wrote: > > > > Furthermore, strong individuals can only be created by a strong society > > > and > > > a strong society can only be created by strong individuals. > > > > [Platt] > > > What defines a "strong individual?" > > > > Well when I started that chapter in Royce's philosophy and read that part > > about strong individuals, what flashed into my mind was the Zuni in Lila. > > That was a strong individual. But look at all the barriers he had to > > fight, even go through torture, and yet he persisted in caring about what > > happened to his society. If his society had been weak and wishy washy, he > > wouldn't have had to exhibit so much strength or develop his strength. I > > think of strength as something you get with resistance. > > > > But also Platt, it makes a case for your politics doesn't it? In a liberal > > economic system that takes care of all its individuals, they never develop > > the necessary necessity that is the mother of invention. > > I like your definition of a strong individual as one who fights against > prevailing social standards and conventional wisdom and keeps fighting > regardless of powerful forces arrayed against her. Such an individual > who flashes in my mind is Sarah Palin who is anathema to left-wing > radicals. Their fear of her is palpable. > > As for the deleterious effect of liberal "caring" that smothers the need to > do anything but sit around and collect government transfers of wealth, > you are so right -- another reason why Pirsig described the quality of > modern society as "no good." > > Platt . > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
