Marsha: Ah yes, man the measure of all things. I find this pretty scary, but true. What seems to be needed is a better set of tools to make the measurement and determine a Good course of action based on his relationship with Nature.
You might say dogs and bears measure all things in their own world, but even to make such a suggestion is man measuring. And all definitions of how dogs measure are man's measuring too. So, as frightening as it is, intellectual patterns are at the top of the heap. The question is: Where are the best intellectual patterns available? Here is where you can say much. Ron: I feel, that this is where Pirsigs quote of "while sustaining biological and social patterns, kill all intellectual patterns" comes into focus in other words, the best intellectual patterns are those that sustain biological and social quality. ----- Original Message ---- From: MarshaV <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:44:52 AM Subject: Re: [MD] (Fwd) Re: John Carl Critiques Pure Experience:INST01 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Carl Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] (Fwd) Re: John Carl Critiques Pure Experience:INST01 John: Bo, I don't know how much help I can be. My quest is to overturn the anthropocentric hierarchy of intellect being the most moral of the levels. Marsha: Ah yes, man the measure of all things. I find this pretty scary, but true. What seems to be needed is a better set of tools to make the measurement and determine a Good course of action based on his relationship with Nature. You might say dogs and bears measure all things in their own world, but even to make such a suggestion is man measuring. And all definitions of how dogs measure are man's measuring too. So, as frightening as it is, intellectual patterns are at the top of the heap. The question is: Where are the best intellectual patterns available? Here is where you can say much. John: I believe values derive from man's relationship with nature, this is the essence of Deep Ecology and the one thing that has been lacking in the Deep Ecology Philosophy is a fully fleshed metaphysics, which I hope the MoQ can provide - with a little tweaking of the levels away from this hierarchical dominance model. Marsha: I agree with the importance of human beings understanding there interrelationship with Nature. I read lately on the micro-level, "I want to point out that the causality chain that describes the events of life ceases to be linear when you realize that amino acids are the elementary units of building proteins, but amino acids are produced by proteins. DNA is necessary for producing proteins, but you need proteins (in the form of enzymes) to build DNA. So the causality chain is not linear but circular, and actually more than circular--it is a complex three-dimensional net of events, all dependent one on the other. But no beginning, no starting point of this causality net can be pointed out..." (Luigi Luisi,'GENTLE BRIDGES: Conversations with the Dalai Lama on the Sciences of Mind') Recognizing this interrelationship, seems to me, a high value intellectual pattern. It's the web of life, or the net of jewels model, and it makes my heart go pitter-patter like imagining dmb's starry night. Marsha Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
