John, Also, when does opinion collapse into a assumption and then flatten into conclusion?
Marsha -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MarshaV Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] requiem for a dmb John, Your conclusion? Ishi's conclusion? There is the introvert whose need of community is limited. And there is the community whose need for complete agreement is great? I think of the end of Chapter 14 with all those boats pointing in the same direction. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Carl Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] requiem for a dmb What assumption? That's not an assumption, it's a conclusion based upon the overwhelming evidence. There's never been a human in history without some sort of communal arrangement, and if you take a person and stick 'em on a deserted Island, they'll create an imaginary community rather than do without. You ever read the story of Ishi < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishi >? To him the greatest marvel of the european culture was not technology - trains, steam engines, phone lines... Nope. Ishi was fascinated his whole life with large groups of people. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:00 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > John, > > >From where comes the assumption that everyone craves community? > > > Marsha > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Carl > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 4:26 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [MD] requiem for a dmb > > So once upon a time, wandering the stacks of Sierra College's three story > library, I came across a book on psychotherapy and acting. It was actually > my first introduction to Freud's thinking in some detail, and dealt with > the > concept of ego death and stage fright. The author talked about Olivier's > stage fright, and if stage fright was simply fear of failing, a great and > experienced actor would be over it by now. We conceptualize and express it > as fear of failing, but it is more subtle than that. In order for a self > to > be born on stage, a self carrying the actor must die, and that self doesn't > want to die - hence the sublimated anxiety and vomiting and nervousness. > Now Lawrence Olivier was a great actor, who, it is said, could make you cry > just by reading the telephone book. I'm not sure if that's really true, > but > I do know that Robert M. Pirsig could get an engineer misty-eyed over a > technical manual. And when Phaedrus experienced his stage fright as a > teacher, his own analysis of himself is problematic. Sometimes it is > harder > to know ourselves than we can imagine, and if we're doubly smart, doubly > so. > Pirsig himself attributes it to being "a loner", "uncomfortable with > people", but I have a different insight. > > Gleaned from Peck's, A different Drum, of course. A methodology of > community building. In this methodology, one of the most difficult > transitions for a group to make is into this egoless place where all the > individual selves "die" a little bit, so that they can constitute a greater > whole - a large dynamic leap into a much more comprehensive social latch, I > guess in MoQ terms. But the process often exhibits exactly like this stage > fright phenomena, and I believe all the evidence points to Phaedrus > experiencing in his teaching, the best kind of learning community - wherein > all were engaged and involved. It is termed, a group of all leaders and > Phaedrus demonstrated that very attribute when the administrator/other > teacher pokes his head in the door and asks what all the hullaballo0o is > about and Phaedrus just says, "We've come across a hard question." And its > like he's not in control anymore. He's standing there admitting that they > are all learning together. It is, in fact, a true community. Once you've > been a part of that process and bonded like that with a group of people, > its > hard to forget. Even years later, coming back to the scene of all this > and > finding a former student who almost tells him that him not being a teacher > anymore is insane. > > She knows and he knows that there was a lot more going on back then than > "normal college". > > true community was happening in those classrooms. > > Or perhaps it was just a stage, for actors to play parts. > > Or perhaps there is no functional difference. > > In other words, Metaphysics ain't for sissies. > > --------------------------------------------- > > > So... where was I at? After such a lengthy preamble and all I hope I have > something meaningful to say about the death of a teacher's pet, but that > comes across as much more snide than I mean it to be. Which is perhaps > rhetorically fitting but I prefer accuracy in expression of my intent, to > rhetorical flourish, and truly I'm mainly saddened and grieved. A little > bit of my hopes and dreams for dialogue have died today, on seeing DMB's > notice of resignation. Just on the very day I checked out a whole book full > of correspondence between Royce and James. > > But on reflection, its probably for the best. I've started to feel sorry > for him for the effects of bring caught in a trap, not of his own devising. > It is an ego trap when you get this public pat on the head and you find > yourself set up as the designated target. Mr. "Good Hands" now has to > defend his position interminably. Until eventually some kid gunning for > your ass who has been practicing out behind the woodshed sneaks up and > shoots you in the back to earn his own reputation. > > ain't many *old* gunslingers in Deadwood. > > Metaphysics ain't for sissies. > > Caught in such a trap, you have few options besides gnawing you're own leg > off. Heck, I'd rather just quit on some level. And it makes sense to me > that Dave is showing some wisdom in doing just that. > > There's a part of ZAMM where Chris and his dad are climbing a mountain, and > his dad is intellectualizing the aspects of ego-climbing which cause > missteps. Reading that, part of me wants to step in a help carry the son, > I > want all this explained to him, patiently, so he can understand and just > take that one step at a time and keep going up steadily. I want to help > him. > > All his dad does is watch him zoom zoom zoom up the mountain, crowing from > the heights "Look how much higher I am than you!" I want dad to step in, > but dad doesn't. Dad just lets his son's energy carry him as far as it > can, > to his own lesson, learned in his own body, in his own time. Probably a > smart dad. No wonder they say Metaphysics ain't for sissies. > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
