Bo: Objectivism (Rationality) along with subjectivism (Irrationality) is what the MOQ rejects AS REALITY'S GROUND and makes into (the value of) its intellectual level. In the following I'll use this variety of the S/O.
Ron: You posit DQ/SQ AS REALITY'S GROUND.a truth that remains true everywhere, independently of human thought or feelings. correct? Bo: SOM emerged as rationality, but simultaneously irrationality emerged, it's what darkness is to light, what intellect contemptuously called the past (what we know as the Social level). Ron: So, subjectivity, the idea that the truth of moral statements depends upon people's values, attitudes, feelings, or beliefs. is the past. the social level. Bo: Thus irrationality is part of intellect's repertoire, and why I call it the value of the distinction (the elements themselves has no existence) Ron: The intellectual level has no existence, ok. Bo: The Social level is from before intellect and consequently knows no "irrationality" and dislikes being called so (by intellect) the devout believer says that God is beyond rationality's "jurisdiction", God is neither objective nor subjective. Ron: then what is God? Bo: And s/he is right, what God really is the MOQ has no opinion about Ron: I thought MoQ covered everything? Bo: (real/irreal is intellect's business) it just says that rationality is a higher static good. We may however have dynamic insights and raptures where all static patterns are transcended, but these do not transcend the MOQ, because it IS the Dynamic/Static distinction itself. Here's where Pirsig went too far from fear of not sounding "dynamic" enough. Ron: Rationality is a higher static good, objective rationalism is better than subjective value. Objective rationalism has dynamic insights and raptures. One of which is the Dynamic/Static distinction itself, the TRUE split of physical reality, correct? Bo: Most of the alleged moqists claim that the intellectual level is a mental realm of ideas, SOM one idea, the MOQ another. I don't call them - Ron f.ex - stupid, but something important is missing in their understanding. Mental/Corporeal is another S/O and what the MOQ rejects as fundamental consequently there is no idea realm different from a material ditto - outside of the 4th. level, that is. Ron: not mental/corporeal but language/experience language is not merely mental and experience is not merely corporal. first lets remember that expereince is not corporeal, it being corporeal is an idea, an objective idea. second language is part of expereince but it is not immediate expereince the expereince that comes before thoughts or words. so your assertion is a straw man. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
