Sorry, I got interrupted by a phone call wrote a incorrect sentence. The last sentence in the first paragraph should read: And a person may be not not intellectual but be highly intelligent, as I use the terms.
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MarshaV Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] Uncertainty Dave, You are intellectualizing and up to your eyeballs in objectification. Also, it seems to me, you are using a 'all or nothing' mentality which distorts the argument. As if all these non-Western peoples NEVER had a subject/object dualistic thought. You might say these non-Western peoples didn't get totally bogged down in a static, valueless modernity. And a person may not be an intellectual but be highly intelligent as I use the terms. Think about this, Buddhism deals with breaking down the belief in an inherently existing self and objects, and it wasn't developed for Western peoples. This was just my little aside, I'll let Bo answer you from his perspective. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Thomas Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] Uncertainty On 9/9/09 2:35 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: > I've stated plainly that I agree with Bo on two aspects of his argument: the > Intellectual Level being the subject/object level, and the MoQ being a major > separation with the Intellectual Level representing a new level, a new > perspective. But I can also agree with what Bo has been saying about the > split from the Social Level creating the Intellectual Level occurring with > the early Greeks, "Aristotle's insistence on the Law of Non-Contradiction." > and the rational/irrational split. So I agree with _three_ points of Bo's > argument. (Marsha, Bo) Marsha I snipped this out of the middle but think your comments before and after were right on course. Bo, here is as good a place to start as any. If RMP was just going to slide a new foundation under Western Philosophy as he claimed what you suggest might work. But remember his quest in part started because of the "Indians." Be they, Crow, Cheyenne, Sioux, Maya, Aztec, Hindoo Indians, Chinese, Japanese etc. In fact all the other people in the world. The majority. None of whom initially developed their world view under the Western S/O umbrella. The second goal he set for himself was to bring all these folks (everybody) under a metaphysical umbrella. Unite Western and Eastern (read all other heathen "Indians") philosophies. One of those "make no small plans" quests. Now if we modify the MoQ as you propose we are faced with some dilemmas. Either all the "Indians", the majority of the people of the world have not evolved to the SOL (Intellectual) level because by RMP's original premise, insight, whatever, they are outside the Western fold. Or they have, but either are not aware of it or have chosen not to make it part of their foundation. Which kind of amounts to the same thing. This suggests that before "your" MoQ could even start towards RMPs goal a majority of the cultures in the world have to evolve from the social to the SOL level and then though it to reach the MoQ level. I'm sure you find this as untenable as I do. I do agree with you though that in many respects RMP is his own worst enemy. In trying to put SOM into its place he claims that the level emerged in Greece exclusively roughly 10,000 years ago when it was "named". This is what James would call, "vicious intellectualism." In my field the Greeks are the source of the word "Architect" and "Architecture". While one can claim that there were neither prior to the "name" being assigned, what is the use or the good of that now? None, it obscures to count philosophical coup. Me pointing to a pyramid or Zen pointing to the Moon punctures that balloon. (Marsha) Sorry for high-jacking this thread. I'll try to restrain myself in the future and get a new one started to explore this issue. Dave Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
