Hi Bo,
> Bo before: >> > The MOQ is no fifth level, but the Quality Reality it was meant to >> > be. > > Steve: >> The MOQ is indeed no fifth level, but it is also not reality. It is >> words about reality. It is a way of thinking about reality--a way of >> using reality. It doesn't bring us more in touch with reality because >> words don't take us in and out of reality. Bo: > You and most other seem to believe that language, thinking ...i.e. > "words about ...etc." expresses some profound insight, but Christ, this > IS SOM: An ineffable reality which comes to us distorted and > secondhand by senses, by language, by thinking and all kinds of > "filters". IT'S THE SUBJECT/OBJECT MONSTER ITSELF! Steve: You've actually correctly identified the issue in my criticism of your claims that "the MOQ IS reality!!!!" as the metaphysical appearance-reality distinction, but it is you who is buying into this platypus. You are correct that that there is an SOM notion that reality "comes to us distorted and secondhand by senses, by language, by thinking and all kinds of "filters"--that we are hopelessly out of touch with reality because our language can't capture the essence of reality. The problem is that you seem to accept this whole notion but believe that the MOQ has finally made it possible for us to get around all these problems. You think that you have finally discovered the language in which the universe demands to be spoken of and the right words that the universe demands we say about it. "The MOQ IS reality!!!!" The way out of the appearance-reality platypus is not to find the universe's secret language (MOQese), but to deny that language is all about representing reality. It doesn't fail to accurately represent reality as the SOMist claims because it doesn't represent at all. Language is instead a tool for coping with reality. It doesn't need to represent reality to be a good tool any more than a hammer needs to represent reality to be useful, and it can't take us closer to or further from reality any more than a hammer could. According to the MOQ, we are always in touch with reality which is simply ordinary experience. The MOQ is better than a hammer for some purposes, but a hammer is better for others, and neither one IS reality. Best, Steve Pirsig; "Metaphysics is not reality. Metaphysics is names about reality. Metaphysics is a restaurant where they give you a thirty-thousand page menu and no food." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
