Hi John,
>> >> Steve: >> Whether or not economic activity involves emotion is not really the >> issue here. The question is whether emotional activity can manifest >> without social patterns. I still say it can. >> >> John: > I say it can't. But I conclude that the self is a social pattern. Without > some sense of self, there is no emotion possible. Steve: The self, as in a personality, is a social pattern, but I think "a sense of self" as in "self-consciousness" or "sentience" is an intellectual pattern. The self is an abstraction, an idea about the unity of a collection of patterns. In any case. I don't see how a sense of self would be required for emotions. As I understand the subjectivity of animals or human infants, there is no "I am scared" there is just the experience of fear. Consider Piaget's sensory-motor stage of cognitive development. Babies are considered "ego-centric" in that they are completely incapable of considerring other's wants, needs, or perspectives. They do not have a developed ego or sense of self that is distinct from the environment. Fear, distress, annoyance, and anger, like hunger, are physical sensations. To a hungry baby the world is hunger. Steve: >> At any rate, what I've argued as key to distinguishing social and >> biological patterns is that biological patterns are "hard-wired" >> through DNA while social patterns are learned. Fear seems pretty >> clearly to be this sort of "hard-wired" response to biological threats >> rather than a behavior copied from one individual to the next through >> social learning. >> > John: > Young horses don't know what to fear. They pick this information up from > their mothers during the infant nurture phase I've been ranting about. Steve: You probably know more about horses than I do, but I'll weigh in anyway. I don't doubt that they can be taught WHAT to fear, but I don't think they can be taught TO fear, they either have this propensity hard-wired or not. Is there nothing that horses will fear without being taught? Loud noises? Heights (will they walk across a glass floor over a chasm)? Flashing lights? I suspect that there is much that they fear that is hard-wired that they need to be trained not to fear. Best, Steve Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
