On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Krimel <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > [Krimel] > Actually the Turing test addresses the issue of how we would know that > someone or something has consciousness.
Ah well, that clears it all up. Consciousness rather than self awareness. You wanna pick the difference between those two apart for me Krimel? > It was proposed as a way of > determining whether machine or an artificial intelligence is conscious. > This > does not work for animals or very young children because they cannot speak > and the test involves asking questions and evaluating the verbal responses. > Right. I wasn't proposing it as a test of self-awareness, I was using it analogicially to make a point. > > And actually it is machines that are getting more humanlike. If humans are becoming more machine-like, then it follows that machines are becoming human. That's because "human" is a programmably malleable goal to shoot for. > In fact if one > were so inclined I think a good case could be made for talking about a > cybernetic level which is the combination of human and machine > intelligence. > You know the sort of thing I mean, online forums, Amazon, Google... > > Wikipedia becomes part of our memory banks, just like trees are part of our breathing apparatus. > [John] > I fail to see how one can have any emotion without a sense of self. I > mean, > what would that even look like? And if a creature lost all caring about > themselves, they would come to seem like an inanimate object, a cog, a > non-entity. > > [Krimel] > If a lizard jumped off of a hot stove would that indicate self awareness to > you? How does one feel pain or hunger without a sense of self? > > If I can galvanize a dead frog into action with electricity, does that imply self-awareness? I think not. I determine self-awareness by the look of chagrin in the eyes of the struggling beast after the torture is done. Which lizards don't have. I freely admit that I have no scientific proof for making this distinction. I make the distinction for reasons of simplicity and preference. It's hypothetical. And unless I get some rational argument against my hypothesis, I go with it. Provisionally, knowing that if history is any judge, I"ll modify my view in the future. John Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
