Hi Bo & Dave (and Andre - should you read this) Bo, I have the same problem with the posts. There are way too many. You'll probably see me post a lot more on weekends than during the week. After a day at work the last thing I want to do is stare at a computer some more.
I am getting all excited about Andre's new thread and want to make sure you and Dave are paying attention to it. [MD] Re Proposed solution to SOL/Intellectual level I'm working hard on understanding the Intellectual Level, and because of Andre's comments I feel a breakthrough coming on. I would love to know what you guys think of his observations. Take care, Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] Intellect's Symposium Hi Mary and Andre. 17 Jan. : Mary (to Dave and Bodvar): > What I've been saying is that the Intellectual Level represents > basically the mindset of the scientific method, which serves its own > purposes rather than those of society or belief systems. There are so many posts and comments I should have liked to comment and thank you for, Mary, but this discussion races on like a runaway train. Particularly the one on logic and computation and also your exchange with Mark Smit on "belief and faith" even if there are some finer SOL-based "observations" to be made. OK, your above comment IS as SOL-id as they come. "...the Intellectual Level represents basically the mindset of the scientific method, which serves its own purposes rather than those of society or belief systems". I know you will agree to the reservation that science did not spring full-fledged out of the social - mythological past, but was the fall-out of the still greater revolution taking place in Greece in the last century BC. Andre: > This is my understanding of Bodvar's SOL argument precisely. Not only > does this scientific method serve its own purposes but in the process > argues that the basis upon which 'those of society or belief systems' > rest are subjective, therefore mere opinion therefore superfluous > therefore having no legitimate basis. They are figments of people's > imagination,,,mere ghosts. Right, this is possibly the most profound thing to understand, namely that is is intellect that has coined the derogatory terms about the past which - in MOQ's hindsight - becomes the social level, and now we understand that the 3rd. level was neither subjective nor superstitious, it merely was before intellects and its S/O. > But as Pirsig says,science is , in fact, not independent from society, > science and its products are ghosts as well. Should science respond to > this it would probably argue that its ghosts are more real than the > others. Ladidadida. Well, the "ghost of reason" argument was Phaedrus' in ZAMM, but in the MOQ, its level system and the tenet about the upper level being out of the lower kind of supersedes it. The uppermost level - intellect - is truly the best, but is static quality explains its limitations. What an "intellectual" who doesn't know the MOQ context, i.e. a SOMist will argue may be what Andre says, but soon (in a hundred years time) everyone will be MOQ-aware. Boy from the Country (John Denver): 'Because he spoke to the fish in the creek. He tried to tell us that the animals could speak.Who knows? Perhaps they do. How do you know they don't just because they've never spoken to you?' > Well, scientists talk to data...photons, protons, quanta, one's and > zero's, molecules etc etc. Difference between the Boy from the Country > and the scientist? The MoQ says they operate at different levels of > evolution. The former in the social and the latter in the intellectual. > But I stand corrected. Well, the MOQ is out of SOM - out of intellect - in a level-like sense and employs intellect's reason albeit for a better purpose. I don't think the MOQ will mean a return to a magical reality (where fishes talk). They (the fishes) haven't reached the social level's language, much less the intellectual where language is seen as symbolic, but they surely communicate their fish information perfectly among themselves. Bodvar Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
