Hi Mark, I'm finding the more some strut their scientific stuff, the more transparent their "stuff" becomes. It's very humorous.
Marsha On Jan 18, 2010, at 10:58 PM, markhsmit wrote: > Marsha, > > I see now. My tactic is more "how do you know something > is true if you only read it". Yes, science is a faith, which means > that if you do not question it, you are a true believer. While > there is nothing wrong with this if used in a kind and altruistic > way, it is dangerous when one tries to convert others. > > Unquestioned belief in science allows for the manipulation > of the masses. This is something I am truly against since > I am for individualism. I believe Quality can best be expressed > through the individual, and not through an institution. > > This is the difference that I see between ZAMM and Lila. ZAMM > is a story about a spiritual awakening, Lila is more about building > a church, (imo). The more structure one puts up, the lower the > Quality. > > Mark > > > Mark, > > No sweet Mark, I think, like you, that science too often is accepted > without question. I asked a question. I asked Krimel if Einstein's > general theory of relativity was science. No trap --- no trap, no cat, > and no mouse. > > > Marsha > > > > > > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 10:45 PM, markhsmit wrote: > >> Marsha, >> Oh, so you set a trap, eh. Cat and mouse? Catch Krimel out. >> I guess we all learn in our own way. >> Mark >> >> >> >> No Mark, the subject was not the scientific method. The subject is deductive >> logic which Krimel said might have problems because of NonEuclidean geometry >> such as Riemannian geometry, which Einstein used in the general theory of >> relativity. But he'd rather dance away with a Ouiji board. Fine. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 17, 2010, at 11:27 AM, markhsmit wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> [Marsha] >>>> I think I remember that Einstein used Riemannian geometry in the general >>>> theory of relativity. >>>> Is the general theory of relativy science? >>>> >>>> [Krimel] >>>> It is a work of theoretical physics. >>> >>> Marsha: >>> I guess you are saying that theoretical physics, Einstein's general theory >>> of relativity, is not science because it uses deductive logic which is not >>> the basis of the scientific method. >>> >>> [Krimel] >>> Scientists employ any means they wish to construct a theory or a hypothesis. >>> They can use induction or deduction. They can see it in a dream or get it >>> from a Ouija board. But, the theory has to be testable, It needs to offer >>> some improvement in our understanding or our ability to make predictions. >>> That is, a new theory has to improve our ability to reduce uncertainty. >>> Einstein's theory offered predictions about certain observable events that >>> differed from Newton's theory. >>> [Mark] >>> Marsha, >>> What you seem to be asking is what is the scientific method. As Krimel >>> suggests, one >>> of the results of the scientific method is predictability. In hindsight one >>> could say >>> that if predictability results, a scientific method was used. This kind of >>> explanation >>> is useful for illumination purposes. Another way to view it, is that the >>> scientific method is really just an elaborate extension of what we all do >>> every day. >>> When you put your hand in the shower to see if it is warm enough, that is >>> the >>> scientific method. The science is predicting that at a certain interval the >>> water will >>> become warm enough to get in. To become more scientific about it, you would >>> time the interval that it takes to get warm with a watch. If you pay >>> attention, then >>> you may notice that it takes longer if it is cold outside. So, you have to >>> introduce >>> a new variable, that is the temperature outside. Also the rate of warming >>> depends >>> on how fast the water is flowing. As the detail of these observations grow, >>> the >>> predictability gets better. This is no different from other empirical >>> studies, they >>> just get more and more complicated. Measurement, prediction, measurement >>> prediction, introduction of new variable, prediction, measurement, test for >>> accuracy. >>> >>> Those that are good at this, compile many of these variables in their heads >>> without >>> knowing it and can take jumps. They can amalgamate seemingly unrelated >>> observations >>> and bring them into the equation. These genius leaps mark a good scientist, >>> and >>> are similar to genius leaps in art, sports, and, yes, even religion. >>> Einstein was >>> able to do this with general relativity. However to do so he had to go >>> against >>> conventional thinking. This is also the mark of a creative scientist, which >>> are periodically needed to bridge seemingly wrong data. Many of Einstein's >>> predictions took years to prove afterwards. He based much of his >>> science on math, which has a remarkable property of predicting what >>> we observe. The trick is trying to understand what the equations mean >>> in the real world, and whether they are useful. An infinite number of >>> equations can be formulated, only a few are useful. An intuitive >>> grasp of the right choice is needed as it gets more complicated. >>> >>> So, there is nothing mysterious about the scientific method, you use >>> it all the time. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> >> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ _______________________________________________________________________ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
