On 2/11/10 10:49 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip> And here is my own dilemma, one moment I applaud SOM's taking religion down a peg, the next I applaud MOQ's taking the SOM down several pegs. But I think these juggler's acts can be performed successfully once we see religion as social value and the MOQ as what robs SOM of its "M" and relegates it the role of intellectual value.. IMO Bodvar Hi Bo and all, Putting the intellectual level above religious sentiment really ties evolution into a knot. There is no place for religious enlightenment when the intellectual level has veto power. There is no restraint on intellect. Imho viewing religious enlightenment as a social level is not workable. It is only by positing a higher emotional, and a higher intellectual level evolution in consciousness only that both religion and intellect can find their limits. The schema for the evolution of religion as social, intellectual, is unworkable. If the social aspect of religion is seen as an indefinable emotional level of evolution, then, the intellectual level has a place in controlling an indefinable, DQ only, emotional level. Imho religion crosses all levels of evolution. The social level, imho, is misconstrued as evolution, and is simply a subspecies in the intellectual level. A social level has more ties to a DQ only emotional level than direction from the intellectual level, as campaigning, voting and royal inheritance have shown, many times. Joe > Khaled and MOQ ers. > I notice that the Iranians now protest the once so longed for Khomeini > revolution and that shouts of "Allah Akbar" sound from rooftops, the > same shouts that sounded during the riots against Shah Reza, and > one can only say "poor buggers" who don't fathom that it is Allah - or at > least his prophet - they have to rebel against to become free. As long > as Islam rules their lives the way it does their existence will be a yoo- > yoo between types of despotism. Their attitude toward religion is the > Muslim World's curse, but on that point they don't budge. The Koran > may be interpreted wrongly and this or that direction within Islam - > Wahabism for instance - may be bad, but Islam rules. Another point > that shows the difficulties the Muslims have with understanding the > Western World is for instance the Mohammed caricatures issue (a > Danish and Norwegian newspaper printed some such which caused > an uproar in the Middle East with burning down of embassies and > flags, they seem dead sure that the said states were behind the > caricatures, the fact that there is an independent press that can print > things without government consent is beyond their scope. This is an > expression of the "Semitic" incomprehensibility regarding the > secular/religion distinction, to them a state must be a muslim state, if > not it is an anti-muslim state, all is either pro or con Muslim to the > Muslims. This also expresses itself in their notion that a Muslim ban > against picturing, or - god forbid - caricaturing Mohammed applies to > all humankind including the "infidels". Did I mention the Swiss Tariq > Ramadan (of Egyptian origin) who promotes an Euroislam when he > speaks in Europe, this means democracy-respecting Muslims who > live and work like normal people only with a different faith, but he says > something else when he speaks to Muslims, then it is about respecting > the Sharia Law system and wearing weils ..etc. No, IMO, democracy > and religion in the "Semitic" form are incompatible, the same non- > secular/religion-schism-type Christendom once ruled in Europe up to > the Renaissance and Enlightenment which was a comeback of the > Greek attitude, and slowly the skeptical, scientific secular "SOM" > relegated religion the role of a mere subjective belief.. Thank God! > And here is my own dilemma, one moment I applaud SOM's taking > religion down a peg, the next I applaud MOQ's taking the SOM down > several pegs. But I think these juggler's acts can be performed > successfully once we see religion as social value and the MOQ as > what robs SOM of its "M" and relegates it the role of intellectual value.. > > IMO > > Bodvar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
