On 23 Feb 2010 at 6:39, X Acto wrote: > Platt, Bodvar, > Then both of you assert that > MoQ IS "being" and that the > intellectual level IS > The belief "that the principles > of mathematics are the principles > of all things."
Huh? Sorry, Ron. I don't get your point. What's the difference between "being" and "is?" What are the "principles of math?" Platt. > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 9:22:41 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] A fly in the MOQ ointment > > On 23 Feb 2010 at 10:44, [email protected] wrote: > > > O'hoi Platt > > Would that be "Ahoy Platt," a navy greeting? > > > 22 Feb. u wrote: > > Platt > > > Just so I'm clear about your argument are you saying that computer > > > languages and higher mathematics rightfully belong at the social level > > > because they are merely extensions of language and calculation that > > > began long before S/O dualism that marks Pirsig's intellectual emerged > > > on scene? > > Bo > > I tried to say - in my peculiar "shorthand" writing style - that the term > > mathematics , algebra, geometry ... are names that the intellectual > > level put on various means of calculation, "math" using numbers as > > symbols, "algebra" using letters, "geometry" using figures, but pebbles, > > lines in sand, beads on an abacus .. etc are symbols all right, so > > calculating itself is infinitely older than the 4th. level. > > Platt > Makes sense to me. Calculation goes way back, long before the S/O > dualism emerged. > > Bo > > It has its origin at the same level as the ability to think, namely > > biology, > > but the term "thinking" as a subjective activity contrasted to the objects > > for thinking is intellect's S/O, however, no static level knows the level > > context, they believe everything is their own legitimate property, hence > > Intellect's claim on "thinking" and its results like calculation in all > > forms, > > including "higher mathematics" . > > Platt > The claims of intellect are truly outrageous. It wants to sweep up > everything in its path. But, unless it has read and digested the MOQ, it > remains largely ignorant of its S/O assumptions and why and how such > assumptions inevitably lead humanity to T.S. Eliot's "Wasteland." > > Platt > > > The only problem remaining for me in your theory is the need to posit > > > a meta-level for the MOQ which seems to replace Pirsig's suggestion of > > > a higher level of art. I understand your (and Pirsig's) "container" > > > argument, but still something just doesn't seem to fit right when it > > > comes to a meta-level reality. I'll work on it. Maybe my idea of > > > beauty being both immanent and transcendent can supply the missing > > > link. > > Bo > > At this point we are at the limits. Pirsig does not really suggest a level > > but "a code of art" beyond intellect which means something that wants > > to "debunk" intellect and that must necessarily be the MOQ, the > > Quality Reality. > > Platt > I've always considered Lila a work of art as well as revelation of reality. > So I'll drop the meta-level idea and simply call the MOQ the Quality > Reality, referring those who vehemently object to Pirsig's own words: > > "You can't have Box "A" contain within itself Box "B," which in turn > contains Box "A." That's whacko." (Lila, 4) > > Whacko, indeed. > > Platt > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
