Marsha asks a relevant question:
> An open question is truth? > > Yup. As in process vs an object. Fascinating stuff. you wanna know where Ellul got it? Kierkegaard. I'm in my existentialist phase still. Ellul: "Kierkegaard mounts an astounding attack on the privileged position of sight in Western philosophy, where the philosopher is a spectator and philosophy is thought of as speculation." John: Spectator/speculation is another term for SOM, eh? Ellul: "Platonism establishes the philosophical sovereignity of sight and G Hegel follows it closely. Plato defines the essence of things on the basis of their perception. True knowledge is knowledge of ideas and of *form*. But idea, eidos, comes from the verb eido, which means to see. Rene Descartes also places sight in an absolute and privileged position as the model of intuition. Intueri also means to see. What a constant repetition of error!" Kierkegaard (breaking the pattern of all classical philosophy up till him): "The speculative individual wants to touch everything he sees... Why doesn't he respect the distance imposed by Being? Why doesn't he deal carefully with the difference between himself and the other person, in order to understand who he is? In order to understand, he must give ear: hasten to listen. You must learn to listen." Ellul: Classical philosophy does not know how to listen or hear truth. Kierkegaard listens to music. The philosopher who refuses to listen also refuses both truth and reality. He lives within one set of categories and thinks with others. John: This is one reason we analyze social patterns differently than intellectual ones in the MoQ. Kierkegaard: The classical philosopher is like a man who builds an enormous castle, and lives beside it in a hut. Ellul: These philosophers may not listen to anything, but of course they talk! They do nothing else! But they use words not even to "hide their thoughts but to hide the fact that they have none!" Their verbal inflation has no foundation. John: Yeah! That's what I've been trying to point out about this reliance on "concrete". It's made of air! (man Jacques, you sound like you and I know some of the same people) Ellul: This becomes clear when they use language only for constructing *systems*. Kierkegaard satirizes philosophy, caught up in mirror tricks of speculation. These tricks lead only to the construction of a system in which one is then enclosed. Only Socrates speaks truly. Kierkegaard: Right! For Socrates does not look complacently on the spectacle of Nature, Being, or his own thought. As a man of character, he achieves the ethical ideal in his life, which he risks as he incarnates his demands. And he announces the need for understanding oneself, because to understand truly is to be. Ellul: Socrates is docile in relation to the inner voice that guides him. He LISTENS to the secret voice we each hear. That is why he speaks. His irony, which asks the most ungracious questions, calls itself into question. Kierkegaard: It abolishes speculation in favor of the word. Ellul: Yes! All Socrates teaching takes place within the framework of a dialogue, in which two speakers provide each other with the opportunity to find themselves and be born. In it the master and his disciple share in the quest for truth. If they wrestle, it is in order to understand each other. In this situation the word is action in life. John: This has been great you guys! But I really gotta go to work now. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
